Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by T.C. O'Rourke on June 1, 2010 at 7:25am

It is not criminal.

The content of this particular spray is no different than those sold for self defense. It is just a more common product for consumers looking for a larger quantity. The capsicum content is far lower than that used by the police and pepper spray (derived from hot peppers) is far safer than mace (chemicals).

I greatly prefer pepper spray to stun guns, which use batteries, are breakable (fail), may not work through clothing, are pretty weak and worst of all require close proximity to your attacker.

My understanding is that an application and 120 waiting period is also required for Chicago residents wishing to purchase a stun gun, but this is unenforceable. Since I feel they are inferior, I'm not gonna spend any time researching this.

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Isn't the use of this quality of pepper spray a crime? I believe there is a reason why there is pepper spray intended for humans and then spray for larger prey animals.

T.C. O'Rourke said:

http://www.defensedevices.com/bearpepspray.html

Tried and true.

Pablo said:

Anybody know where can I purchase bear spray?

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Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on June 1, 2010 at 7:28am

Also I don't want to be a downer but whoever posted the link to the coldsteel.com was giving illegal advice. The City of Chicago Municipal Code 8-24-020, makes it illegal for a person 18 and under to possess a knife with a blade longer than 2 inches and if you are over 18, a knife no longer than 2 1/2". In addition it states that knifes cannot be intended for use against persons so the one knife on coldsteel.com that is 2 1/4" in blade length would still be considered illegal because it has no applicable use outside of punching into flesh.

If you must have a knife you need to make sure you can argue that it's intent is for purposes of utility. Typically this is a box cutter or a locking knife. To the right you'll see a photo of my Chrome bag with a Gerber Mini Paraframe Serrated Knife pushed through the belt clip loop. I use this knife almost daily for regular cutting purposes so it's a little worn but if I am stopped and searched by an officer I would have no worry about it being attached to my bag. I can prove I use it for more than stabbing someone simply by showing the wear on the blade. Not to mention it is a 1/4" below the limit.

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Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on June 1, 2010 at 7:29am

Thanks Kevin! I may get some mace!

Kevin Conway said:

Oddly, no. That is unless you discharge it in a restaurant, bar or tavern. Pepper spray is pepper spray in the eyes of the Chicago Municipal Code, so you might as well pay up for the good stuff.

8-24-045 Noxious gas or liquid.

(a) No person shall use any device to discharge a noxious gas or liquid in an enclosed room in any Class C-1 or Class C-2 Assembly Unit, as defined in Chapter 13-56 of this Code, or in an enclosed room in any restaurant, bar or tavern that is a Class F Assembly Unit as defined in that chapter, if more than 20 persons are present in that room, unless the person is a peace officer, as defined in Section 8-20-30* of this Code, engaged in law enforcement activity. As used in this section, “noxious gas or liquid” means mace, pepper spray or any other substance that is intended or designed to cause irritation to the eyes, nose or mouth, or to cause nausea.

* Editor's note – As set forth in Coun. J. 4-9-03, p. 106797, § 1; correct cite appears to be § 8-20-030.

(b) Any person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor that is punishable by a fine $500.00, or 30 days imprisonment, or both, for each offense.

(Added Coun. J. 4-9-03, p. 106979, § 1)

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Isn't the use of this quality of pepper spray a crime? I believe there is a reason why there is pepper spray intended for humans and then spray for larger prey animals.
T.C. O'Rourke said:

http://www.defensedevices.com/bearpepspray.html

Tried and true. Pablo said:

Anybody know where can I purchase bear spray?

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on June 1, 2010 at 7:35am

From what I've read, pepper spray is more "effective" than mace. Might be time for a chainlink "group buy."

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Thanks Kevin! I may get some mace!

Kevin Conway said:

Oddly, no. That is unless you discharge it in a restaurant, bar or tavern. Pepper spray is pepper spray in the eyes of the Chicago Municipal Code, so you might as well pay up for the good stuff.

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Permalink Reply by T.C. O'Rourke on June 1, 2010 at 7:49am

Also, consider that it isn't an easy thing to stab somebody. It takes nerve, strength and some skill, not to mention close proximity. Relying on merely brandishing a weapon is a way to get your ass kicked harder, or worse.

I've pulled a knife on attackers, but only because I was otherwise unarmed. It should really be a last option.

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Also I don't want to be a downer but whoever posted the link to the coldsteel.com was giving illegal advice. The City of Chicago Municipal Code 8-24-020, makes it illegal for a person 18 and under to possess a knife with a blade longer than 2 inches and if you are over 18, a knife no longer than 2 1/2". In addition it states that knifes cannot be intended for use against persons so the one knife on coldsteel.com that is 2 1/4" in blade length would still be considered illegal because it has no applicable use outside of punching into flesh.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on June 1, 2010 at 7:58am

I can only hope that there is another serialized story coming...

T.C. O'Rourke said:

Also, consider that it isn't an easy thing to stab somebody. It takes nerve, strength and some skill, not to mention close proximity. Relying on merely brandishing a weapon is a way to get your ass kicked harder, or worse.
I've pulled a knife on attackers, but only because I was otherwise unarmed. It should really be a last option.

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Permalink Reply by knowbody on June 1, 2010 at 8:17am

guilty... as charged.

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Also I don't want to be a downer but whoever posted the link to the coldsteel.com was giving illegal advice. The City of Chicago Municipal Code 8-24-020, makes it illegal for a person 18 and under to possess a knife with a blade longer than 2 inches and if you are over 18, a knife no longer than 2 1/2". In addition it states that knifes cannot be intended for use against persons so the one knife on coldsteel.com that is 2 1/4" in blade length would still be considered illegal because it has no applicable use outside of punching into flesh.

If you must have a knife you need to make sure you can argue that it's intent is for purposes of utility. Typically this is a box cutter or a locking knife. To the right you'll see a photo of my Chrome bag with a Gerber Mini Paraframe Serrated Knife pushed through the belt clip loop. I use this knife almost daily for regular cutting purposes so it's a little worn but if I am stopped and searched by an officer I would have no worry about it being attached to my bag. I can prove I use it for more than stabbing someone simply by showing the wear on the blade. Not to mention it is a 1/4" below the limit.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on June 1, 2010 at 8:57am

Stabbing is ineffective in such a situation anyway, as stab wounds tend to close up immediately and allow the attacker to advance.



T.C. O'Rourke said:

Also, consider that it isn't an easy thing to stab somebody. It takes nerve, strength and some skill, not to mention close proximity. Relying on merely brandishing a weapon is a way to get your ass kicked harder, or worse.

I've pulled a knife on attackers, but only because I was otherwise unarmed. It should really be a last option.

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Also I don't want to be a downer but whoever posted the link to the coldsteel.com was giving illegal advice. The City of Chicago Municipal Code 8-24-020, makes it illegal for a person 18 and under to possess a knife with a blade longer than 2 inches and if you are over 18, a knife no longer than 2 1/2". In addition it states that knifes cannot be intended for use against persons so the one knife on coldsteel.com that is 2 1/4" in blade length would still be considered illegal because it has no applicable use outside of punching into flesh.

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Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on June 1, 2010 at 9:02am

Assuming the attacker is trained or has enough experience to ignore the sharp pain of being stabbed. But what do I know I am a wuse.

Just a note, I feel like I should explain that I'm not an advocate of using a knife as a weapon in self defense. It seems like most defense instructors agree that unless you train with a knife it's most likely going to end up badly for you if you brandish it. I posted my knife picture as an example of what is legal. I doubt that my knife would even be effective against an attacker if I used it since it's so worn and tiny.

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Permalink Reply by knowbody on June 1, 2010 at 9:57am

i sometimes carry a modern rendition of the ulu aka: inuit woman's knife. because it is an awesome utility blade and cooking tool...


click the picture for the link!

...for some reason, on the occasions that i've had to turn in my weapon(s) at the federal buildings they've come to identify me with the nickname of the "collector". have to admit that it isn't at all legal and may seem quite menacing when deployed.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Quirk on June 1, 2010 at 10:44am

Cutifly, would you care to be more specific about your generalization?

cutifly said:

We all know what they looked like, sounded like and acted like. Someone is gonna snap back sooner or later and I hope whoever pays for it is the one who actually has it coming and not some poor sucker who just happens to be hooked up with the wrong group of jerks on random chance.

Brian Wolber said:

Any idea what the attackers looked like?

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on June 1, 2010 at 11:03am

Exactly. I've taken self defense classes in the past, and every instructor has emphasized this over and over. Police will tell you the same. Unless you know how to use it well (from military or other advanced training), any weapon has at least as great a probability of being used against you, possibly to kill you, as it does to help. That's a helluva chance to take.

In dangerous situations, my solution has been to get the hell out of there FAST. Not wearing yourself out a long way from home and keeping a bit of energy in reserve to be able to sprint your way out of a tough situation can save your life. This isn't an option in all situations. When it is an option, it may be the safest one.

I've sprinted my way out of dangerous situations in various neighborhoods around the city. Paying attention to your surroundings and getting yourself out sooner rather than later can be your most effective defensive weapon.

If someone surprises you up close and you can't immediately get clear, try to kick or hit him where it hurts most (groin, nose, eyes, mouth, kidneys, kneecaps). Your fist wrapped around a hard object (keys, roll of coins, etc.) or elbow can be very effective. Hit him and stun him, even if it's only momentary, then run like hell. Scream for help. If you're not close to home, work or a friend's place, run to an open business or a busy street where you can get help.

If you've never taken a self defense class, it can give you some useful tips you might not have thought of. If you're lucky, you'll never need to use them. Being aware of your surroundings may improve your luck.

T.C. O'Rourke said:

Also, consider that it isn't an easy thing to stab somebody. It takes nerve, strength and some skill, not to mention close proximity. Relying on merely brandishing a weapon is a way to get your ass kicked harder, or worse.

I've pulled a knife on attackers, but only because I was otherwise unarmed. It should really be a last option.

Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

Also I don't want to be a downer but whoever posted the link to the coldsteel.com was giving illegal advice. The City of Chicago Municipal Code 8-24-020, makes it illegal for a person 18 and under to possess a knife with a blade longer than 2 inches and if you are over 18, a knife no longer than 2 1/2". In addition it states that knifes cannot be intended for use against persons so the one knife on coldsteel.com that is 2 1/4" in blade length would still be considered illegal because it has no applicable use outside of punching into flesh.

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