Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on June 27, 2014 at 10:31am

Doesn't matter where the hell you live, because this thread is about a specific section of Milwaukee (Lawrence to Elston) and anyone considering riding that portion to any of the neighborhoods you named can just as easily take Elston, but you can do whatever the fuck you want, kidd.

 

Apie (10.6) said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez-NsShMK74

You don't know where I live, so why guess on the best route for me. 

envane (69 furlongs) said:

Elston->Kedzie->Logan.   Wow, such an complex, incovenient route!   It increases my ride by 0.3 miles and I'd need a GPS to figure it out.

 

 

Apie (10.6) said:

How about the locals going to Avondale, Logan, Wicker, Bucktown, or Humboldt?  Everybody who lives in area are not just biking to an area Elston can take us. But thanks for the comment.

envane (69 furlongs) said:

Out of all the fights to pick, why this one?  Why a far-flung stretch of Milwaukee?  For local riders there are other options and anyone going downtownish can take Elston.

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Permalink Reply by Madopal (16.5 mi) on June 27, 2014 at 10:34am

Ok, so first, this plan targets the area north of Foster all the way up to Elston, which is quite a distance.

Second, what about those who live south of there who are looking for ways to get north & up to the North Branch trail? I dunno if you noticed, but there are these things called expressways, and they tend to be hard to cross.  So, by forcing those who live at, say, Lawrence & Central to ride east to Elston, you're making them cross 2 expressways and 2 train viaducts. In addition, Milwaukee south of Irving is already WAY better to ride than north of Foster.  It's 2 lane, it has multiple speed cameras, and a speed limit of 25.

Third, *WE* didn't pick this.  CDOT did.  South sections of Milwaukee haven't been on the table.  This section is.  If you want to call them and try and barter a deal to take those resources and use them somewhere else, go right ahead.  In the meantime, the rest of us will try and make the roads better wherever we get the opportunity.

Fourth, that area of Milwaukee has been lacking for a while, and it's showing signs of improving. But having it be a speedway isn't helping. In addition, at the last meeting, they mentioned that Pace was hoping to do some sort of express bus service that has some BRT-ish elements taking people from the city north up to places like Golf Mill.  The people who live around there would love to be able to walk around, the traffic volume is way less than is necessary for that large of a road, and the accidents have been too high.  CDOT is taking an opportunity, and given that I'm on the NW side (not up there, but I'm still in the area), I'm happy to help and find others up this way who feel the same. It's not taking resources from other places, as it's mostly federal funding. 

I really don't understand the objection here other than "that area doesn't deserve it", which is an argument I've yet to hear explained.   "They've got Elston" sure as hell isn't cutting it, because there are many, many people west of the Kennedy for whom Elston isn't an option for getting up there.

envane (69 furlongs) said:

You could easily make the case for improvement on Milwaukee all the way up to Foster, but after that Milwaukee turns into a wide highway that, short of eliminating two lanes and then picking up all the buildings and moving them closer in, will never achieve any kind of "urban-ness". Some completist obsession with "fixing" all of Milwaukee is a weak excuse to radically remake a street into something it will never be in an area that doesn't lack for decent bike routes.

Madopal (2.4 mi) said:

Wow, what is it about this stretch of Milwaukee that seems to bring out the best in people? Did they pave over a native burial ground or something?

Seriously, though, there are many parts of the city that have gotten no real attention as far as Complete Streets, and the more sections of Milwaukee that are done, the more of a standout the remaining sections will be.  It's going to be pretty hard to argue for not redoing from Logan up to Irving if north of Lawrence is actually better.

And Anne is correct, this will help everyone in the area, not just cyclists. It's a perfect case of low hanging fruit, and I can see why CDOT would target it. They just may not have considered the political factor with the last aldermanic election being so close.

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Permalink Reply by Madopal (16.5 mi) on June 27, 2014 at 10:40am

Ok, so if I'm at Montrose & Milwaukee (or, say, anywhere south of there and west of Cicero), and I want to get to the North Branch trail (or Superdawg, or Leadbelly north, or Amitabul, or Mom's, or Andy's).  Your suggestion is that I ride across 2 viaducts, cross the Kennedy, take a left on Elston (always fun), cross back across the Edens, and then head up?  That about right?

BTW, since you participated on the Montrose vs Lawrence thread, you're aware of the problems and the contention with both.  If you're ruling out Milwaukee, um...that would seem to leave a big hole. And since you didn't specify in your comments on that thread exactly how far west you take Lawrence, I'm curious as to where you've gone for what and how far west you regularly ride.

envane (69 furlongs) said:

Doesn't matter where the hell you live, because this thread is about a specific section of Milwaukee (Lawrence to Elston) and anyone considering riding that portion to any of the neighborhoods you named can just as easily take Elston

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Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on June 27, 2014 at 10:54am

Lawrence & Central to NBT?  You don't need to go on Milwaukee or Elston at all. There is a bike/pedestrian overpass across I-90 off Avondale, then a number of ways to get to the NBT from there.  I'm sure one could come up with corner cases that would make avoiding that section of Milwaukee very inconvenient for them, but how many people would that effect?

 

Nothing CDOT will do will make that road better for cyclists.

 

Madopal (2.4 mi) said:

Ok, so first, this plan targets the area north of Foster all the way up to Elston, which is quite a distance.

Second, what about those who live south of there who are looking for ways to get north & up to the North Branch trail? I dunno if you noticed, but there are these things called expressways, and they tend to be hard to cross.  So, by forcing those who live at, say, Lawrence & Central to ride east to Elston, you're making them cross 2 expressways and 2 train viaducts. In addition, Milwaukee south of Irving is already WAY better to ride than north of Foster.  It's 2 lane, it has multiple speed cameras, and a speed limit of 25.

Third, *WE* didn't pick this.  CDOT did.  South sections of Milwaukee haven't been on the table.  This section is.  If you want to call them and try and barter a deal to take those resources and use them somewhere else, go right ahead.  In the meantime, the rest of us will try and make the roads better wherever we get the opportunity.

envane (69 furlongs) said:

You could easily make the case for improvement on Milwaukee all the way up to Foster, but after that Milwaukee turns into a wide highway that, short of eliminating two lanes and then picking up all the buildings and moving them closer in, will never achieve any kind of "urban-ness". Some completist obsession with "fixing" all of Milwaukee is a weak excuse to radically remake a street into something it will never be in an area that doesn't lack for decent bike routes.

Madopal (2.4 mi) said:

Wow, what is it about this stretch of Milwaukee that seems to bring out the best in people? Did they pave over a native burial ground or something?

Seriously, though, there are many parts of the city that have gotten no real attention as far as Complete Streets, and the more sections of Milwaukee that are done, the more of a standout the remaining sections will be.  It's going to be pretty hard to argue for not redoing from Logan up to Irving if north of Lawrence is actually better.

And Anne is correct, this will help everyone in the area, not just cyclists. It's a perfect case of low hanging fruit, and I can see why CDOT would target it. They just may not have considered the political factor with the last aldermanic election being so close.

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Permalink Reply by Rusty on June 28, 2014 at 4:08am

I'll definitely be there!

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on July 3, 2014 at 4:58am

So how was the meeting?

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Permalink Reply by Madopal (16.5 mi) on July 3, 2014 at 9:11am

I'm not sure the DNAInfo piece does it justice, but I'm not sure.  

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140703/jefferson-park/milwaukee-av...

BTW, with their coverage, I get the feeling someone else is writing the headlines to try and get page hits.

Anyway, I was there early (5-6:30), and the anti-contingent was definitely very strong at that point.  When I was heading out, though, it looked like more government/professional folks as well as some cyclists were there & showing up.

Also, it was a bit unclear from the way they had the materials set up which plan was on what easel.  The video presentation did the clearest job of explaining the 3 plans on the 3 different sections of road, but it was hard to glean from the printed materials which was what.

There was an InfoWars guy out front handing out flyers explaining how it was all a UN plot to remove our way of life or something.  There was definitely some strange and angry folks there.

Anyone else make it?

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