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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on August 28, 2012 at 3:35am

From my standpoint, it never seemed to be a very inviting place for pedestrians because it was turned into a glorified bus stop, with a healthy smattering of City service vehicles. "Hey kids, let's go down to the State Street Mall and watch the Archer bus pull in and out." Never seemed like less traffic to me, just seemed like a greater concentration of a particular kind of vehicle.

James BlackHeron said:

As Yogi Berra said, "No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."

Charlie Short said:

I saw a really interesting article on the ped movements in the loop and how that had a lot to do with the faliure of the State Street Mall. The study, which was done over a number of years, from 1973 to 1995 (?) showed that ped traffic on State was really dependent on folks that worked in the loop, making the state street mall useless during the hours that one would want to attract customers (after work.) Ironically, the busy-ness of the mall area during week days actually gave the impression to outsiders that the mall wasn't a place you'd want to go, and as that myth persisted, it became a place you wouldn't want to go.

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on August 28, 2012 at 3:38am

"Glorified bus stop" - great description. The fact that nobody lived downtown then didn't help.  Everyone was a visitor.  With all the newer condos and apartments and so many more people living in/near the Loop, there are now many thousands of residents within easy walking distance.

Kevin C said:

From my standpoint, it never seemed to be a very inviting place for pedestrians because it was turned into a glorified bus stop, with a healthy smattering of City service vehicles. "Hey kids, let's go down to the State Street Mall and watch the Archer bus pull in and out." Never seemed like less traffic to me, just seemed like a greater concentration of a particular kind of vehicle.

James BlackHeron said:

As Yogi Berra said, "No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."

Charlie Short said:

I saw a really interesting article on the ped movements in the loop and how that had a lot to do with the faliure of the State Street Mall. The study, which was done over a number of years, from 1973 to 1995 (?) showed that ped traffic on State was really dependent on folks that worked in the loop, making the state street mall useless during the hours that one would want to attract customers (after work.) Ironically, the busy-ness of the mall area during week days actually gave the impression to outsiders that the mall wasn't a place you'd want to go, and as that myth persisted, it became a place you wouldn't want to go.

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Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on August 28, 2012 at 4:12am

That's a great point.  Another point is that the State Street Bus Mall came along right at the time of the essential death of the inner city Department store.  With very rare exceptions, and most of those have been "macy-fied", the Department Stores in downtowns which gave the downtown part of their character have gone.   No Strawbridge, Gimbels and Hechts in Philadelphia, No Famous Barr in St. Louis, No Woodies, Hechts, or Garfinkels in DC, No Filenes or Jordan Marsh in Boston and so on.  Contrast this with the very successful "mall streets" in Munich or Frankfurt or elsewhere in Europe (and also Beijing).  They have very strong Department store anchors as well as other attractions intended to bring people in.   Had the Inner City Department stores not been starting their death spiral, and had they not dominated State Street (State had Sears, Wards, Wiebolts, Carsons, Fields, Goldblatts, The Fair, to name a few as well as a large number of larger specialty stores such as Baskins), and had Buses also been excluded and Cafes and the like been developed, it might have had a different ending.

Anne Alt said:

"Glorified bus stop" - great description. The fact that nobody lived downtown then didn't help.  Everyone was a visitor.  With all the newer condos and apartments and so many more people living in/near the Loop, there are now many thousands of residents within easy walking distance.

Kevin C said:

From my standpoint, it never seemed to be a very inviting place for pedestrians because it was turned into a glorified bus stop, with a healthy smattering of City service vehicles. "Hey kids, let's go down to the State Street Mall and watch the Archer bus pull in and out." Never seemed like less traffic to me, just seemed like a greater concentration of a particular kind of vehicle.

James BlackHeron said:

As Yogi Berra said, "No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."

Charlie Short said:

I saw a really interesting article on the ped movements in the loop and how that had a lot to do with the faliure of the State Street Mall. The study, which was done over a number of years, from 1973 to 1995 (?) showed that ped traffic on State was really dependent on folks that worked in the loop, making the state street mall useless during the hours that one would want to attract customers (after work.) Ironically, the busy-ness of the mall area during week days actually gave the impression to outsiders that the mall wasn't a place you'd want to go, and as that myth persisted, it became a place you wouldn't want to go.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 28, 2012 at 5:39am

You should go try out Madison's State Street "pedestrian" mall.

EVERY SINGLE BUS on the Madison Metro service is routed up that "pedestrian mall" as it goes through the Isthmus.  

Great idea.

Add in a smattering of public service and delivery vehicles and the "pedestrian mall" is almost as busy & crowded with motor-vehicle traffic as Johnson/Gorham Streets.

FAIL

It's been a few years since I've been up there so maybe that has changed.   The only exception to that was the Library Mall at the far West end of State where it runs into University campus and past the graduate library, the State Historical Society and those god-awful concrete bunkers that the "artistic architects" of the 1970's thought were so wonderful.  At least in that block or two it is a real "pedestrian mall" and even bikes are not allowed to be ridden (you must walk them.)    The rest of State Street all the way up to the capital square is a pretty darn busy road with a bus coming through less than every minute.   It's no Pedestrian Mall by any stretch of the imagination.  

Kevin C said:

From my standpoint, it never seemed to be a very inviting place for pedestrians because it was turned into a glorified bus stop, with a healthy smattering of City service vehicles. "Hey kids, let's go down to the State Street Mall and watch the Archer bus pull in and out." Never seemed like less traffic to me, just seemed like a greater concentration of a particular kind of vehicle.

James BlackHeron said:

As Yogi Berra said, "No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."

Charlie Short said:

I saw a really interesting article on the ped movements in the loop and how that had a lot to do with the faliure of the State Street Mall. The study, which was done over a number of years, from 1973 to 1995 (?) showed that ped traffic on State was really dependent on folks that worked in the loop, making the state street mall useless during the hours that one would want to attract customers (after work.) Ironically, the busy-ness of the mall area during week days actually gave the impression to outsiders that the mall wasn't a place you'd want to go, and as that myth persisted, it became a place you wouldn't want to go.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on August 28, 2012 at 5:41am

I've ridden a bike on the State Street ped mall in Madison, and I enjoyed it. Certainly less car/bus traffic than other nearby streets. I did ride it on a Saturday night, however, so there may have been less cars and buses than usual.

James BlackHeron said:

You should go try out Madison's State Street "pedestrian" mall.

EVERY SINGLE BUS on the Madison Metro service is routed up that "pedestrian mall" as it goes through the Isthmus.  

Great idea.

Add in a smattering of public service and delivery vehicles and the "pedestrian mall" is almost as busy & crowded with motor-vehicle traffic as Johnson/Gorham Streets.

FAIL

It's been a few years since I've been up there so maybe that has changed.   The only exception to that was the Library Mall at the far West end of State where it runs into University campus and past the graduate library, the State Historical Society and those god-awful concrete bunkers that the "artistic architects" of the 1970's thought were so wonderful.  At least in that block or two it is a real "pedestrian mall" and even bikes are not allowed to be ridden (you must walk them.)    The rest of State Street all the way up to the capital square is a pretty darn busy road with a bus coming through less than every minute.   It's no Pedestrian Mall by any stretch of the imagination.  

Kevin C said:

From my standpoint, it never seemed to be a very inviting place for pedestrians because it was turned into a glorified bus stop, with a healthy smattering of City service vehicles. "Hey kids, let's go down to the State Street Mall and watch the Archer bus pull in and out." Never seemed like less traffic to me, just seemed like a greater concentration of a particular kind of vehicle.

James BlackHeron said:

As Yogi Berra said, "No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."

Charlie Short said:

I saw a really interesting article on the ped movements in the loop and how that had a lot to do with the faliure of the State Street Mall. The study, which was done over a number of years, from 1973 to 1995 (?) showed that ped traffic on State was really dependent on folks that worked in the loop, making the state street mall useless during the hours that one would want to attract customers (after work.) Ironically, the busy-ness of the mall area during week days actually gave the impression to outsiders that the mall wasn't a place you'd want to go, and as that myth persisted, it became a place you wouldn't want to go.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 28, 2012 at 6:22am

It's OK on a bike, not bad at all.  I may have been exagerating about it being SUPER busy.  But then again Johnson/Gorham isn't terrible on a bike either IMHO.   I grew up in Madison and I'm not afraid of taking my lane.  

But it is not by any means a "pedestrian mall."   When walking one better look very carefully before stepping off the curb mid-block or you just might get flattened by a bus, a delivery vehicle, a cop/firetruck out for a joyride, or even a bike.

Adam Herstein said:

I've ridden a bike on the State Street ped mall in Madison, and I enjoyed it. Certainly less car/bus traffic than other nearby streets. I did ride it on a Saturday night, however, so there may have been less cars and buses than usual.

James BlackHeron said:

You should go try out Madison's State Street "pedestrian" mall.

EVERY SINGLE BUS on the Madison Metro service is routed up that "pedestrian mall" as it goes through the Isthmus.  

Great idea.

Add in a smattering of public service and delivery vehicles and the "pedestrian mall" is almost as busy & crowded with motor-vehicle traffic as Johnson/Gorham Streets.

FAIL

It's been a few years since I've been up there so maybe that has changed.   The only exception to that was the Library Mall at the far West end of State where it runs into University campus and past the graduate library, the State Historical Society and those god-awful concrete bunkers that the "artistic architects" of the 1970's thought were so wonderful.  At least in that block or two it is a real "pedestrian mall" and even bikes are not allowed to be ridden (you must walk them.)    The rest of State Street all the way up to the capital square is a pretty darn busy road with a bus coming through less than every minute.   It's no Pedestrian Mall by any stretch of the imagination.  

Kevin C said:

From my standpoint, it never seemed to be a very inviting place for pedestrians because it was turned into a glorified bus stop, with a healthy smattering of City service vehicles. "Hey kids, let's go down to the State Street Mall and watch the Archer bus pull in and out." Never seemed like less traffic to me, just seemed like a greater concentration of a particular kind of vehicle.

James BlackHeron said:

As Yogi Berra said, "No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded."

Charlie Short said:

I saw a really interesting article on the ped movements in the loop and how that had a lot to do with the faliure of the State Street Mall. The study, which was done over a number of years, from 1973 to 1995 (?) showed that ped traffic on State was really dependent on folks that worked in the loop, making the state street mall useless during the hours that one would want to attract customers (after work.) Ironically, the busy-ness of the mall area during week days actually gave the impression to outsiders that the mall wasn't a place you'd want to go, and as that myth persisted, it became a place you wouldn't want to go.

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