Good Intentions, Bad Execution -- Berteau Greenway

Its probably not fair and a bit too early to judge, but the Berteau Greenway looks to be a disaster in the making for Bicycles.    They have decided to keep it "open" end to end for cars rather than putting in a series of cul de sac's open for bicycles.  To "calm" the traffic, they have narrowed the intersections.  Will it slow down cars, if two cars are coming in opposite directions, yes, certainly.   But with bicycles involved, it may well simply result in cars crowding bicycles to the side of the road.    Add to this the fact that at one way portions of Berteau, they are going to allow two way bicycling....  which, in addition to being a bad idea due to the narrowness of the street, sends the message to at least a portion of the community that Salmoning is not a bad idea.    Maybe I will love it.... but my current plan is to find another street to come across... perhaps Lincoln to Grace..

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Permalink Reply by Davo on September 4, 2013 at 5:09am

I dont understand why they would do this if the people who live there didn't want it. The street is pretty calm anyway and from what I've seen, the work being done looks like it was just money looking for a hole.

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on September 4, 2013 at 5:17am

I don't think that this is necessarily a fair characterization of the neighborhood.  Lots of people in the Neighborhood, particularly those on Berteau actually wanted the "full blown" Greenway.   Berteau has been used for years as an "expressway" between Clark and Lincoln and has a lot more traffic on it than the surrounding streets.  Ron Santo used to use it on his drive home from Wrigley every day.  Many of these drivers sped through the neighborhood without a great deal of regard for the Special Needs kids at Courtney (Closed this year... ) and the like.  The two way nature of it with parking on both sides has made bicycling on it less than ideal.   You are either in the door zone or the path of oncoming vehicles.   This was a real chance to try a real greenway in the City and it was thrown away by a couple of VERY noisy community residents.  

Davo said:

I dont understand why they would do this if the people who live there didn't want it. The street is pretty calm anyway and from what I've seen, the work being done looks like it was just money looking for a hole.

Permalink Reply by Davo on September 4, 2013 at 5:39am

I guess that I have never seen it that busy/crazy while walking my dog through the area. Granted that the time Im there is usually after 6 pm. I bet the wrigley traffic could get bad, probably not too bad this year for how good they are doing. I think that the full blown idea would have been a nice enhancement to that neighborhood since that street already has a school and a bunch of churches. Hopefully this is just phase one because the "bump outs" that i've seen don't look like they would accomplish anything. 

Crazy David 84 Furlongs said:

I don't think that this is necessarily a fair characterization of the neighborhood.  Lots of people in the Neighborhood, particularly those on Berteau actually wanted the "full blown" Greenway.   Berteau has been used for years as an "expressway" between Clark and Lincoln and has a lot more traffic on it than the surrounding streets.  Ron Santo used to use it on his drive home from Wrigley every day.  Many of these drivers sped through the neighborhood without a great deal of regard for the Special Needs kids at Courtney (Closed this year... ) and the like.  The two way nature of it with parking on both sides has made bicycling on it less than ideal.   You are either in the door zone or the path of oncoming vehicles.   This was a real chance to try a real greenway in the City and it was thrown away by a couple of VERY noisy community residents.  

Davo said:

I dont understand why they would do this if the people who live there didn't want it. The street is pretty calm anyway and from what I've seen, the work being done looks like it was just money looking for a hole.

Permalink Reply by globalguy on September 4, 2013 at 6:50am

h' 1.0 said:

Really hard to visualize what it is you're talking about here. Maybe one of our helmet-cam geeks can ride it and get us a visual?

A little help for h'.1 and the rest!

Permalink Reply by BruceBikes on September 4, 2013 at 7:19am

I believe these bump-outs would reduce the crossing distance for and increase the visibility of pedestrians.  As much as I dislike admitting it, everything is not always about bicycling.

Davo said:

...because the "bump outs" that i've seen don't look like they would accomplish anything. 

Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on September 4, 2013 at 8:58am

Yes, that vast chasm of pavement known as Berteau Ave needed shortening.   The only thing those bumpouts are doing is making it harder for me to pass right-turning cars on the left.

BruceBikes said:

I believe these bump-outs would reduce the crossing distance for and increase the visibility of pedestrians.  As much as I dislike admitting it, everything is not always about bicycling.

Davo said:

...because the "bump outs" that i've seen don't look like they would accomplish anything. 

Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on September 4, 2013 at 10:43am

Not just better ped exposure, but more greenery, and bioswales to capture excess water (keeping streets drier in all seasons) - all these are great things about bump-outs. I think many of us would've wanted the full monty (a throughway for bikes only), but it's a start. I am hoping other neighborhoods see this one as a good thing and then ask for this kind of treatment, or get behind it when it comes to other parts of the city.

Baby steps...


envane (69 furlongs) said:

Yes, that vast chasm of pavement known as Berteau Ave needed shortening.   The only thing those bumpouts are doing is making it harder for me to pass right-turning cars on the left.

BruceBikes said:

I believe these bump-outs would reduce the crossing distance for and increase the visibility of pedestrians.  As much as I dislike admitting it, everything is not always about bicycling.

Davo said:

...because the "bump outs" that i've seen don't look like they would accomplish anything. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on September 4, 2013 at 11:01am

I'd love to see bioswales used in more locations.  Every little bit helps in reducing flooding, sewer backups, and sewage releases to Lake Michigan when the system gets too full to hold it all.

Permalink Reply by Davo on September 4, 2013 at 11:14am

I've found that when I clean the leaves and gunk from the grates, that helps reduce flooding. The best part is when people tell me that Im a good neighbor and that they would have waited for the city to do it. Those bump outs look bigger than the ones Ive seen on the west side of ashland. Ill try to take a pic today.



Anne Alt said:

I'd love to see bioswales used in more locations.  Every little bit helps in reducing flooding, sewer backups, and sewage releases to Lake Michigan when the system gets too full to hold it all.

Permalink Reply by Renee Patten on September 6, 2013 at 4:29am

I work on Berteau at Ravenswood and plan to ride the stretch when they are done and do a write up for the HuffPo.


h' 1.0 said:

Really hard to visualize what it is you're talking about here. Maybe one of our helmet-cam geeks can ride it and get us a visual?

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on September 6, 2013 at 4:51am

I clean the grates in front of my house for the same reason, so our corner normally has little or no flooding, while the other side of the street has water up over the curb in a heavy storm.

However, most people are too lazy or go everywhere in cars.  Many of them don't seem to give a s@#! about peds or cyclists having to wade through the floods.

One big advantage of bioswales over clear grates - keeping excess water out of the sewer system means reduced chances of sewage overflow being dumped into the lake, less water to be processed by sewage treatment plants, and less environmental impact and cost from a heavy storm.  It slightly reduces the amount of paved surface and improves the ability of Mother Nature to absorb storm water without so much intervention from man-made systems.

Davo said:

I've found that when I clean the leaves and gunk from the grates, that helps reduce flooding. The best part is when people tell me that Im a good neighbor and that they would have waited for the city to do it.

Permalink Reply by Davo on September 6, 2013 at 4:55am

My bad for complaining about the initial bump outs west of ashland. When I first saw them, they had just finished the corner pieces that are only about 3' x 3'. They now have the second half dug out. It will be interesting to see what kind of greenery in those planters. On a side note, Who will take care of these planters? Will the residents be able to do this or is it all on the city? I imagine that it would be like the Ravenswood Gardens where its a little from both.

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