Good Intentions, Bad Execution -- Berteau Greenway

Its probably not fair and a bit too early to judge, but the Berteau Greenway looks to be a disaster in the making for Bicycles.    They have decided to keep it "open" end to end for cars rather than putting in a series of cul de sac's open for bicycles.  To "calm" the traffic, they have narrowed the intersections.  Will it slow down cars, if two cars are coming in opposite directions, yes, certainly.   But with bicycles involved, it may well simply result in cars crowding bicycles to the side of the road.    Add to this the fact that at one way portions of Berteau, they are going to allow two way bicycling....  which, in addition to being a bad idea due to the narrowness of the street, sends the message to at least a portion of the community that Salmoning is not a bad idea.    Maybe I will love it.... but my current plan is to find another street to come across... perhaps Lincoln to Grace..

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Permalink Reply by Mark on September 6, 2013 at 6:11am

I made a point of riding this eastbound this morning the entire length between Lincoln and Clark.  I was most impressed the the "EXCEPT BIKES" signs that were attached to the one-way and Do Not Enter signs.  It would be nice to see more of these signs on other quarter-mile streets that are already being used as greenways but have certain blocks where traffic is reversed to limit cut-through car traffic.  I don't think all of the other infrastructure treatment is necessary.  That being said, cyclists need to be extra alert when riding in the contra-flow sections.  Encouraging cyclists on these streets also acts as a traffic calming device to slow the speed of traffic.

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on September 6, 2013 at 6:19am


Mark said:

Encouraging cyclists on these streets also acts as a traffic calming device to slow the speed of traffic.

I'd prefer not to personally serve as a traffic-calming device for people driving cars.
Permalink Reply by Davo on September 6, 2013 at 6:34am

I don't mind being a part of traffic calming. Better than being a traffic agitator.

Permalink Reply by Mark on September 6, 2013 at 6:35am

At some point cars and cyclists need to co-exist.  Quit your whining.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:



Mark said:

Encouraging cyclists on these streets also acts as a traffic calming device to slow the speed of traffic.

I'd prefer not to personally serve as a traffic-calming device for people driving cars.
Permalink Reply by Shaun Jacobsen on September 6, 2013 at 7:30am

I think the Greenway will be nice, but I do wish it had more signage. From what I see now (this could change!), there are only "EXCEPT BIKES" signs under the "DO NOT ENTER" and "ONE WAY" signs.

In Heidelberg, Germany, I saw these markings on the street to clearly denote that the street was a "bike street" (there are also bike/pedestrian priority streets) and the cars driving on them were going very slow. Also notable is that it is a very narrow street, unlike Berteau, where the homes are set back from the curb. But interesting anyway.

Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on September 6, 2013 at 7:39am
omg +1


Mark said:

At some point cars and cyclists need to co-exist.  Quit your whining.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:



Mark said:

Encouraging cyclists on these streets also acts as a traffic calming device to slow the speed of traffic.

I'd prefer not to personally serve as a traffic-calming device for people driving cars.
Permalink Reply by Rich S on September 6, 2013 at 10:02am

The only bumpout I ride past regularly is the one on eastbound Webster at Lister. It's the stop sign just before Elston. My typical experience when arriving at that stop sign at about the same time as cars is that the drivers will just squeeze closer to you rather than wait behind you. It seems that it rarely enters most drivers heads that waiting behind a biker is an option. So I find that the bumpout actually makes it more dangerous there and doesn't force drivers to slow down any more than they already do for the stop sign. The bumpout gives you less room to enter an intersection.

Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on September 6, 2013 at 10:07am

I wonder whether a Bumpout would work better if it were, say, 8 feet before the intersection.   Thus it might provide a protected place for the Bicycle at the intersection.   I understand the theory, I just am not sure with the aggressive nature of the car drivers in Chicago that it will work in practice.

Rich S said:

The only bumpout I ride past regularly is the one on eastbound Webster at Lister. It's the stop sign just before Elston. My typical experience when arriving at that stop sign at about the same time as cars is that the drivers will just squeeze closer to you rather than wait behind you. It seems that it rarely enters most drivers heads that waiting behind a biker is an option. So I find that the bumpout actually makes it more dangerous there and doesn't force drivers to slow down any more than they already do for the stop sign. The bumpout gives you less room to enter an intersection.

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on September 6, 2013 at 10:28am
My point is that we can't count on people riding bikes as traffic-calming devices. The infrastructure needs to be in place to make biking safer and force people driving to slow down. My mere presence on the road won't necessarily make people drive safer. If the infrastructure is half-assed, then it won't have much effect.

I have attended a few public meetings to express my concerns. I don't complain exclusively on the Internet. :-)
Permalink Reply by Shaun Jacobsen on September 6, 2013 at 11:03am

Think the "safety in numbers" effect is definitely true, but neighborhood streets like Berteau will never have that critical mass needed to ensure that effect all the time. That's why physical infrastructure is also important. One car driving alone on the street isn't threatened by another car, but one bike riding alone can be threatened by one car, the severity of the threat based on numerous factors.

Also, attending meetings, something I try to do frequently (and participated in my ward's participatory budgeting process - one group got a greenway project for Leland voted on), is very important, but many other factors can water down a good project so it ends up not being so great. I feel the Berteau greenway was first a great plan but all the neighbor's concerns watered it down. There's a ton of streets in this area and all areas of the city. The people living on this one street can put up with the change to a bike-priority street. That's how I feel about it, and it is a shame that, despite the best efforts by active transportation advocates, it still got watered down by NIMBYs. And that's worth complaining about.

Permalink Reply by Kat on September 7, 2013 at 2:31am

I was part of the Greenway planning process (like Sarah) and in hindsight the "real" version never had a chance.  No matter how many bike/ped advocates came to the community meetings, it would not have outweighed the few, vocal (and entitled) homeowners east of Ravenswood.  The alderman caved like a styrofoam cup in fire.  

And re: the mention of Berteau not needing calming?  I live right off it and it's the most annoying street possible.  Either there is no traffic and cars (esp. cabs) use it like an speedway or there are multiple cars and no one can seem to get through.  I bike it with my kid and it's the least fun part of the ride.

Permalink Reply by Duppie on September 30, 2013 at 2:13pm

As part of the Greenway, they put in bumpouts and a pedestrian island where Clark and Berteau meet. To make it all fit, they took out some free parking spaces on the east side of Clark. Cars regularly speed on that stretch, so this should slow them down. They also painted the contra flow bike lanes.

Overall, the biggest improvement is various pieces of infrastructure to slow traffic down. Sounds like a win to me.

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