Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Adam "Cezar" Jenkins on September 30, 2011 at 6:41am

And Mokena. Most suburban cyclists down here don't have the attitude you speak of. ಠ_ಠ

John Greenfield said:

Well, he's got a pretty suburban attitude. (Apologies to my friends in Berwyn, Oak Park and Evanston. Actually scratch Berwyn. Those Neanderthals took down the Car Spike.)

Davo said:

I thought he was the "Urban Cyclist"

Hes been at it longer than most people have had teeth and newbies just piss him off. ;P

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Permalink Reply by Liz on September 30, 2011 at 7:05am

I also want to point out that placing the argument that critical mass “causes road rage” is quite false.  I’m not sure why psychologist the “Urban Cyslist” spoke with, but road rage is a learned behavior over a long time.  Having to wait in traffic for critical mass to clear is probably something that most Chicago drivers only experience 1-10 times total.  People who are experiences deep anger at these incidents have likely had a history of aggressive reactions to driving throughout their lifetime.  In fact, it is often the case that children whose parents are otherwise composed and disciplined but yell, scream, become aggressive and uncontrolled when behind the wheel learn that it is acceptable and appropriate to dismiss otherwise polite behavior when one is behind the wheel.  It is a cultural and cognitive acceptance that anger is an appropriate reaction to any transportation delay or inconvenience.

 

Critical mass does not cause road rage, rather it is a trigger for those who are already susceptible.  Eliminating potential triggers of “road rage” does not help our society break the cycle of anger and aggression behind the wheel. 

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Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 30, 2011 at 7:10am

Yeah it was a pretty blatant troll he didn't really even believe and was just trying to drum up publicity for his little bike-negative book which he researched by commuting a small distance regularly. I was initially against the idea of even bothering to confront him and give him any more publicity but Gin and Ethan did an excellent job of making it an opportunity to bring positive attention to CM and Active Trans.

Cameron Puetz said:

Given the lack of enthusiasm in his responses, I'm starting to wonder if he ever really cared that much about Critical Mass, or if he just wanted a controversy to get more exposure for his book.

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Permalink Reply by John S. on September 30, 2011 at 7:11am

The main problem with Critical Mass is the blocking of other traffic.  I would like to see the ride obey the traffic laws.  There is no need to blow through red lights as a group.

 

If done right, Critical Mass could be one of the best ways to show what a city would look like with law abiding cyclists comprising the majority of the traffic.

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 30, 2011 at 7:12am

Liz: dang near everything he said was false, and he had to pretend other people's evidence didn't exist. Oh sure, we may think we see people waving and making the high-fives from their car windows and being generally pleased to see us, but his soulovision can see into their secret hearts and know their hate.

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Permalink Reply by Scotto 6.8 on September 30, 2011 at 7:14am

I too would like to see a more "lawful" CM.  So what if we're broken into smaller groups by traffic lights.  More groups of cyclists to be seen then!

John S. said:

The main problem with Critical Mass is the blocking of other traffic.  I would like to see the ride obey the traffic laws.  There is no need to blow through red lights as a group.

 

If done right, Critical Mass could be one of the best ways to show what a city would look like with law abiding cyclists comprising the majority of the traffic.

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Liz on September 30, 2011 at 7:21am

His reply on that issue was downright strange.  I am guessing that he is personally in need of anger management since most people do not have thesse sort of "repressed" feelings and are "only being polite" while secretly seething.  

 

That said, many others aside from him have made the argument that cyclists either blocking traffic or impeding a driver (if only for a few seconds) is what "causes" road rage.  I've heard the argument before, and I find it quite annoying when people blame the trigger that cause instead identifying the underlying problem.

 
Peenworm Grubologist said:

Liz: dang near everything he said was false, and he had to pretend other people's evidence didn't exist. Oh sure, we may think we see people waving and making the high-fives from their car windows and being generally pleased to see us, but his soulovision can see into their secret hearts and know their hate.

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Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 30, 2011 at 7:43am

Well from my admittedly limited research I'm going to say that the primary cause of road rage is "driving a car."

 

Speaking from my own driving days trying to slog through the city can get exhaustingly frustrating just because of how many cars are trying to squeeze through the streets.

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Permalink Reply by Liz on September 30, 2011 at 8:21am

I just find it interesting that even people who are otherwise polite and controlled "lose it" so quickly behind the wheel.

 

I face MANY exhaustively frustrating situations throughout the day at work, but I don't yell, scream, swear, and make loud noises there. 

 

I hate driving, and I have totally lost in while sitting behind the wheel in traffic.  There's not a good reason for this. So what is it about being in a car that changes how we deal with frustration in a healthy manner? 

 

I don't except to find a single answer, but I wonder how we can help change handling frustration while driving. 

 

Peenworm Grubologist said:

Well from my admittedly limited research I'm going to say that the primary cause of road rage is "driving a car."

 

Speaking from my own driving days trying to slog through the city can get exhaustingly frustrating just because of how many cars are trying to squeeze through the streets.

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Permalink Reply by Vondo on September 30, 2011 at 9:38am

Great job Ethan and Gin! Almost like the old rope a dope in that the more you guys let this tool talk, the more he showed he was out of his depth in that discussion. It seemed to me that when he had to back up his original blog, he couldn't do it. All that talk about monetizing CCM was ridiculous. Ethan and Gin came off as prepared and intelligent, whereas Scott seemed to backpedal a bit from his original statements and tried to divert all that CCM hate by talking about using it to help the city's financial troubles.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on September 30, 2011 at 10:45am

I think the piece on the tele-box was excellent and everyone but the SUBurban cyclist made good points and came off well.  However, that guy... oh sheesh...  Just curious but is this mo' even on this site?

 

I read some more of his blog stuff and the 'about him' section of his site and here is all I have to say about the guy:

 

1. The man is not well informed about cycling in Chicago and is obviously not a part of Chicago cycling or bike advocacy community.  Nothing he says or believes is anything that any single person I know who is active in the Chicago cycle scene I know would agree with; the guy is a crank.

 

2. When it comes to the things he says CCM is about it is very obvious he is projecting his own thoughts and agenda onto the behaviors he sees.  He wants the people on the ride to be angry because it solves his purpose.

 

3. I read his bio, something seemed off in it so I did some math and here is what I found:  He claims a round trip daily commute of 12 miles He claims that in the 7 years he has been cycling on his Trek he has logged 'over 15,000 miles.'  Now, I am going to guess that, like any good self promoter he is claiming the highest possible number he can; I mean if he really rode over 18k or over 20k in that time why would he not claim that?  So now here is where it got interesting to me...  If he rode 12 miles 5 days a week for 7 years that is 21,846 miles so he, ar 15,000 is 6,840 short of what would be a 5 day a week commute.  In fact he is about 19 miles per week short of that number and that does not take into account any side trips that he may take being as he uses his bike for transportation... does he go nowhere but work?  I have a feeling this guy is not quite the 'hardcore' urban cyclists that he claims to be.  If this guy is such a wealth of knowledge why have I not seen him at bike winter stuff like I have seen others around here telling folks how to dress warm and survive the winter?  My guess is because he simply does not ride that much compared to some of us...  About a month of my average riding multiplied out over 7 years is greater then 25,000 miles; where is my book deal?  I mean I am obviously a greater authority than he is based on mileage!

 

4. He lists his cycling 'kit' as a $10 t-shirt and shorts... OK, yeah, in Chicago?  I call bullshit to the tenth power on this one.  That line is either pure BS or he is not riding the winter here in Chicago.  Those who know me can attest that I am the absolute last person who is ever going to buy special clothing to ride a bike and even I have clothing I specifically purchased to bike the winter. 

 

5. I find it interesting that even though he does not 'do' centuries and weekend races his profile pic on his blog shows him wearing a number...

 

I am interested to see this mans book; I just ordered it used off Amazon; look for a review soon.  As for now I am off to try and find his bike in his blog so I can pick that apart as well...

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Permalink Reply by Jamais716 on September 30, 2011 at 12:44pm

Check out Traffic - http://www.amazon.com/Traffic-Drive-What-Says-About/dp/0307264785

 

It's a really interesting read for anybody on the road.  He explains that part of why we get more frustrated in a car is our inability to communicate with others on the road.  Check out pages 22-24 in the Amazon preview for a much better explanation than I could possibly give.


Liz said:

I just find it interesting that even people who are otherwise polite and controlled "lose it" so quickly behind the wheel.

 

I face MANY exhaustively frustrating situations throughout the day at work, but I don't yell, scream, swear, and make loud noises there. 

 

I hate driving, and I have totally lost in while sitting behind the wheel in traffic.  There's not a good reason for this. So what is it about being in a car that changes how we deal with frustration in a healthy manner? 

 

I don't except to find a single answer, but I wonder how we can help change handling frustration while driving. 

 

Peenworm Grubologist said:

Well from my admittedly limited research I'm going to say that the primary cause of road rage is "driving a car."

 

Speaking from my own driving days trying to slog through the city can get exhaustingly frustrating just because of how many cars are trying to squeeze through the streets.

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