Friday (05-13) is last day to submit comments about Damen-Elston-Fullerton redesign

Read about the project to redesign the Damen-Elston-Fullerton junction.

 

Gather up your ideas on its hits or misses, then email your comments to Bridget Stalla. They're due tomorrow. 

Right-of-way acquisitions

Here're my comments (I haven't submitted them yet):

  1. Bike lane on Damen – There should be a bike lane on Damen connecting the two ends north and south of Fullerton. Additionally, the bike lane should go THROUGH both intersections. See an example of a “through bike lane” in this photo. Too often bicyclists in Chicago are “dropped off” at intersections, left to fend for themselves and get caught in the same problems as automobiles. But automobiles and bicycles are different kinds of vehicles and need different treatments and direction.
  2. Roundabout – Was a roundabout considered for any of the three intersections? What were the results of this analysis? A modern, turbo roundabout should be given serious consideration for at least one of the three intersections.
  3. Curve and wide road on New Elston Avenue – On “New Elston Avenue,” between Fullerton and Damen, there are two regular lanes and one bike lane in each direction. The widening of Elston was not justified. The high radius curve on New Elston Avenue on the east side of the project, and two regular lanes in each direction, will likely cause higher-speed traffic than bicyclists are used to on many roads on which they travel in great numbers. Automobile drivers speeding around the curve may enter the bike lanes. This is a good case for protected bike lanes at least on this part of the roadway.
  4. Removing the center island – Was removing the center island an alternative the project team considered?
  5. Queue backups caused by Fullerton-highway ramp intersection – The project area should be expanded to include the intersection to the west of the project area, at Fullerton/Kennedy ramp. Westbound drivers constantly and consistently block the Fullerton intersections with Damen and Elston while waiting to go through the signal at the highway ramp.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by buddaa38 on May 12, 2011 at 4:21pm
I do like your plan & hope that is used.
Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on May 12, 2011 at 4:48pm

The way I see this working is...

Your comments go in the "public record." All of the comments will be read, categorized, and then each category will have a summary of what people said. These summaries will be placed into a document the next time the design/plan is released. 

Do the comments actually make a difference in the plan?

That probably depends on how well the project staff understand your comments and how important Complete Streets is to them.

Analysis that was discussed on the posters, with the staff, and in the documents is scant and limited.

 

Did they do analysis on the traffic delays/flow if Damen was only one lane in the northbound direction immediately south of Fullerton (to give room for a bike lane in each direction)? No. 

Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on May 12, 2011 at 5:41pm
Here's a pretty useless video of the traffic simulation.
Permalink Reply by Todd Allen on May 13, 2011 at 2:38am
Thanks so much Steven for taking the time and effort to make this detailed post.  I followed the link to your blog and used your link to Stella's email to inform myself and the  submit my comment saying I support the preferred alternative so long as bicycles and pedestrians are fully accommodated in accordance with Complete Streets guidelines.
Permalink Reply by David on May 13, 2011 at 3:13am

Steven, do you know of any studies on the effects of roundabouts on bike safety?   I've seen a lot about auto traffic and roundabouts but never much about bikes.  There's some musing about it on a post at the  ATA blog,  but their conclusion is that they don't know much about it either. 

 

It seems to me that roundabouts, uneducated drivers and bikes would be a dangerous combination, but studies might show something different.

Permalink Reply by igz on May 13, 2011 at 4:11am

sheesh...no matter how you cut it, this intersection still sucks.

 

best ive come up with:

southbound elston approaching fullerton - the vacant lot next to the tennis spot - right turn only for fullerton only. (unless we can cut through somewhere at leavit to redirect onto fullerton that way, and then the turn only can be for damen specifically)

 

fullerton westbound approaching damen/elston - vacant lot in front of vienna - make a damen turn off some few hundred feet back, and farther up, an elston specific lane also easing into that lot.  this will aleviate straight westbound flow continuuing on fullerton

 

northbound elston approaching fullerton/damen - turn off much like proposed.  no right turn at elston/fullerton.

 

northbound damen approaching fullerton/elston - unless you take out popeyes...i dunno!

 

Eastbound fullerton approaching damen/elston - right turn off lane through the parking lot onto damen

 

Southbound damen approaching fullerton/elston - offramp for right turn just after bridge, maybe to leavit, maybe through lot behind 'european imports'.

 

keep the island there - and put a million redlight cameras for every asshole who fucks up that intersection by blocking passage.

 

in terms of bike lanes through all this...

brightly painted dedicated lanes. (best i got)

 

 

all these still present some challenges, of course.

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on May 13, 2011 at 4:35am

There are hundreds of roundabouts constructed in Europe (and two in Arizona) that safely accommodate bicyclists. 

The one in Arizona invites bicyclists to ride on a wide sidewalk and cross the street perpendicularly (the best direction to be visible), or they can ride through the roundabout.

Here're some photos of roundabouts with circumferential bike lanes (all of these are single-traffic lane roundabouts; double lane roundabout photos are harder to find):

IMG_3525 

Roundabout

Klapwijkseweg

And a bird's eye view.

I haven't sought research about roundabouts and their safety for bicyclists. I did seek information about roundabouts and their capacity because that would probably be the first question in this project. If a roundabout cannot handle the expected traffic at one of these intersections, then it cannot be further considered. 

David said:

Steven, do you know of any studies on the effects of roundabouts on bike safety?   I've seen a lot about auto traffic and roundabouts but never much about bikes.  There's some musing about it on a post at the  ATA blog,  but their conclusion is that they don't know much about it either. 

 

It seems to me that roundabouts, uneducated drivers and bikes would be a dangerous combination, but studies might show something different.

Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on May 13, 2011 at 4:38am
Thanks for trying!

Send in your comments today!

iggi said:

sheesh...no matter how you cut it, this intersection still sucks.

 

best ive come up with:

southbound elston approaching fullerton - the vacant lot next to the tennis spot - right turn only for fullerton only. (unless we can cut through somewhere at leavit to redirect onto fullerton that way, and then the turn only can be for damen specifically)

[snip]

Permalink Reply by Davo on May 13, 2011 at 4:39am

What hapens to the land labled Utility Easment?  I think that it would be nice if there could be a Ped/Bike troughfare going SE on Elston where the existing road is. Going NW seems a little more problematic but perhaps stopsigns and cross walks could act as traffic calmers where the Elston gets cut off.

What happens to Whirley Ball? It looks like "New Elston" would cut right through the building. That would make me sad.

 

I'll Send this later today.

Thanks for all your work Steven.

Permalink Reply by igz on May 13, 2011 at 4:49am

thanks,

sent

Steven Vance said:

Thanks for trying!

Send in your comments today!

iggi said:

sheesh...no matter how you cut it, this intersection still sucks.

 

best ive come up with:

southbound elston approaching fullerton - the vacant lot next to the tennis spot - right turn only for fullerton only. (unless we can cut through somewhere at leavit to redirect onto fullerton that way, and then the turn only can be for damen specifically)

[snip]
Permalink Reply by Active Transportation Alliance on May 13, 2011 at 6:11am

This is what we recommended to our members in the area (nearly 800 of them!):

 

Dear member,

Active Trans is encouraging our members to attend a meeting where the Chicago Department of Transportation and Ald. Scott Waguespack will be presenting a project proposal for revamping the Damen-Elston-Fullerton intersection.

 

This is a challenging intersection that could benefit from innovative bicycling solutions such as:

  1. Continuing the existing bike lanes on Damen and Elston through the intersection.
  2. Using bike boxes on Damen and Elston to support cueing of bicyclists and increasing bicyclist visibility.

When:
Wednesday, April 27, 2011
Meeting time: 4 pm - 7 pm (open house)

 

Where:
Bucktown-Wicker Park Branch of the Chicago Public Library
1701 N. Milwaukee Avenue

 

We hope you can attend this meeting to provide valuable input on this project.

 

 

Great that the conversation around this is so engaged.

 

Thanks,

Ethan Spotts, Active Trans, M&C

 

PS: And yes, roundabouts...we need to learn more about these new-fangled traffic options.

Permalink Reply by Davo on May 13, 2011 at 6:21am
Im confused. Does anyone have a Delorian? If so could you pick me up to go to this meeting?

Active Transportation Alliance said:

This is what we recommended to our members in the area (nearly 800 of them!):

 

Dear member,

Active Trans is encouraging our members to attend a meeting where the Chicago Department of Transportation and Ald. Scott Waguespack will be presenting a project proposal for revamping the Damen-Elston-Fullerton intersection.

 

This is a challenging intersection that could benefit from innovative bicycling solutions such as:

  1. Continuing the existing bike lanes on Damen and Elston through the intersection.
  2. Using bike boxes on Damen and Elston to support cueing of bicyclists and increasing bicyclist visibility.

When:
Wednesday, April 27, 2011
Meeting time: 4 pm - 7 pm (open house)

 

Where:
Bucktown-Wicker Park Branch of the Chicago Public Library
1701 N. Milwaukee Avenue

 

We hope you can attend this meeting to provide valuable input on this project.

 

 

Great that the conversation around this is so engaged.

 

Thanks,

Ethan Spotts, Active Trans, M&C

 

PS: And yes, roundabouts...we need to learn more about these new-fangled traffic options.

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