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Yeah I wouldn't go to a builder that called themselves "cheap" =) But you can't go wrong with $40 - thats basically a night out to eat and drink with some friends.
But it seems to me that it would be even easier to just find a cheap track frame than to convert a road frame. I would be too paranoid off the wheel popping out of the horiz stays - although I've never heard of that happening. My wheels slip enough with horiz drops with a tugnut. Over-torquing the hub will ruin bearings.
$40 + labor - thats a night out with some friends at charlie trotters :)
Could you elaborate on how the tightness of the axle nut effects the bearings. Isn't that what the locknuts are for? The dropout is clamped in between the outer nut and the locknut, so those two are the only things that have torque on the threads. Am I missing something?
grayson said:Yeah I wouldn't go to a builder that called themselves "cheap" =) But you can't go wrong with $40 - thats basically a night out to eat and drink with some friends.
But it seems to me that it would be even easier to just find a cheap track frame than to convert a road frame. I would be too paranoid off the wheel popping out of the horiz stays - although I've never heard of that happening. My wheels slip enough with horiz drops with a tugnut. Over-torquing the hub will ruin bearings.
If you have been taught correctly in how to build hubs and wheels, you should have been shown that overly tight QR levers or nuts do microscopically stress the threads and cause the bearings to be tighter than ideal. This is rarely noticeable to most mechanics because the angular momentum of the whole wheel masks the overly tight bearings once mounted on forks or rear dropouts. In other words, once the wheel is mounted on the frame, you can't feel if it is a bit too tight or not by turning the wheel. If you release the whole tightening mechanism and feel the bearing by turning the axel between your fingers, they will appear to be fine. This is why you must have loose individual dropouts on each end of the hub when initially tightening bearing cones in hubs. This allows you to feel the bearings while they are stressed after being torqued exactly the way they will be when installed. It's a intelligent trick that Chris Wallace teaches all his students, backing it up with actually microscopic photographs of overly stressed axel/bearings.
The question remains how much over tightening is enough to ruin the bearings and/or the races. It can't help. Note, however, that overly loose bearings, although they feel smoother, do more damage than ones slightly too tight. This is because all the weight of the rider/bike will be only on the two bottom bearings. When the bearings are slight too tight, all bearings make contact. It's counter intuitive, but true.
on2wheels said:$40 + labor - thats a night out with some friends at charlie trotters :)
Could you elaborate on how the tightness of the axle nut effects the bearings. Isn't that what the locknuts are for? The dropout is clamped in between the outer nut and the locknut, so those two are the only things that have torque on the threads. Am I missing something?
Thanks for the thorough explanation David,
So one should build their hubs to be a bit loose, so that if they are relying on the outer nuts to hold the wheel on, they can get them tight enough to hold the wheel in the dropouts. Thus bringing the bearings to the correct tightness.
David Travis said:If you have been taught correctly in how to build hubs and wheels, you should have been shown that overly tight QR levers or nuts do microscopically stress the threads and cause the bearings to be tighter than ideal. This is rarely noticeable to most mechanics because the angular momentum of the whole wheel masks the overly tight bearings once mounted on forks or rear dropouts. In other words, once the wheel is mounted on the frame, you can't feel if it is a bit too tight or not by turning the wheel. If you release the whole tightening mechanism and feel the bearing by turning the axel between your fingers, they will appear to be fine. This is why you must have loose individual dropouts on each end of the hub when initially tightening bearing cones in hubs. This allows you to feel the bearings while they are stressed after being torqued exactly the way they will be when installed. It's a intelligent trick that Chris Wallace teaches all his students, backing it up with actually microscopic photographs of overly stressed axel/bearings.
The question remains how much over tightening is enough to ruin the bearings and/or the races. It can't help. Note, however, that overly loose bearings, although they feel smoother, do more damage than ones slightly too tight. This is because all the weight of the rider/bike will be only on the two bottom bearings. When the bearings are slight too tight, all bearings make contact. It's counter intuitive, but true.
on2wheels said:$40 + labor - thats a night out with some friends at charlie trotters :)
Could you elaborate on how the tightness of the axle nut effects the bearings. Isn't that what the locknuts are for? The dropout is clamped in between the outer nut and the locknut, so those two are the only things that have torque on the threads. Am I missing something?
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