Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by S on April 2, 2014 at 6:34am

Don't tell that to Boeing and the FAA since the 787 uses carbon fiber and composite materials as the primary structural component in it's airframe.  Airbus also uses it for the A350 and A380 and I think there's a few other aerospace applications as well. 

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Keating on April 2, 2014 at 7:20am

Identifying what is known as "Other Similar Incidents" or "OSIs" is a key part in researching any product liability case. Again, I'm specifically interested in the failure of carbon fiber FRAMES. To be clear, I have no agenda against carbon fiber, it just so happens that is the material at issue in this particular case.

If there is a better place than theChainlink for reaching a wide audience of local bicycle enthusiasts who I have a legitimate opportunity to connect with directly, please let me know. Until then, thank you to everyone on theChainlink for your time and attention to my efforts to assist a fellow bicyclist who was severely injured. Ride Safe. Thanks again.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 2, 2014 at 7:25am

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

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Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on April 2, 2014 at 8:02am

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

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Permalink Reply by S on April 2, 2014 at 8:16am

Paul Walker's crash probably would have been just as lethal in another car.  Modern engineering has done quite a bit in terms of understanding failure modes in crashes and designing structures to avoid occupant injuries.  Watch this video of a crash between a modern subcompact car (renault modus) and an old school volvo 940 if you want some evidence.  I'd much rather be in the modus than the volvo.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 2, 2014 at 5:07pm

Are you kidding me?

He could have had that accident in a freakin' tank and still been dead as a doornail; the human body can only decelerate so fast.

But that is really off the subject...  so why is there an issue with 'the airplane thing' beyond that fact that it proves you wrong?

Carbon Fiber, and other similar composites, have been used in structural applications in aircraft for YEARS and are proven to be sound technology.  Not only does it have an excellent strength to weight ratio but it offers a degree of flex that other materials do not which is why it is so nice for a bike frame.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 2, 2014 at 5:20pm

Lulz

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Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on April 3, 2014 at 2:33am

So I take it you will be riding a carbon failure fork in the near future?

notoriousDUG said:

Are you kidding me?

He could have had that accident in a freakin' tank and still been dead as a doornail; the human body can only decelerate so fast.

But that is really off the subject...  so why is there an issue with 'the airplane thing' beyond that fact that it proves you wrong?

Carbon Fiber, and other similar composites, have been used in structural applications in aircraft for YEARS and are proven to be sound technology.  Not only does it have an excellent strength to weight ratio but it offers a degree of flex that other materials do not which is why it is so nice for a bike frame.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 3, 2014 at 4:37am

Well I am planning on purchasing a bike with a carbon fork so yeah, I probably will...

Why would I not?

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

So I take it you will be riding a carbon failure fork in the near future?

notoriousDUG said:

Are you kidding me?

He could have had that accident in a freakin' tank and still been dead as a doornail; the human body can only decelerate so fast.

But that is really off the subject...  so why is there an issue with 'the airplane thing' beyond that fact that it proves you wrong?

Carbon Fiber, and other similar composites, have been used in structural applications in aircraft for YEARS and are proven to be sound technology.  Not only does it have an excellent strength to weight ratio but it offers a degree of flex that other materials do not which is why it is so nice for a bike frame.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on April 3, 2014 at 6:20am

Good luck ;)

notoriousDUG said:

Well I am planning on purchasing a bike with a carbon fork so yeah, I probably will...

Why would I not?

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

So I take it you will be riding a carbon failure fork in the near future?

notoriousDUG said:

Are you kidding me?

He could have had that accident in a freakin' tank and still been dead as a doornail; the human body can only decelerate so fast.

But that is really off the subject...  so why is there an issue with 'the airplane thing' beyond that fact that it proves you wrong?

Carbon Fiber, and other similar composites, have been used in structural applications in aircraft for YEARS and are proven to be sound technology.  Not only does it have an excellent strength to weight ratio but it offers a degree of flex that other materials do not which is why it is so nice for a bike frame.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 3, 2014 at 7:03am

Oh, a bunch of pictures where nobody has any idea of the back story; that totally proves carbon is not safe...

You can come up with pictures of failed steel and aluminum parts as well, maybe we should all be scared of that stuff as well.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Good luck ;)

notoriousDUG said:

Well I am planning on purchasing a bike with a carbon fork so yeah, I probably will...

Why would I not?

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

So I take it you will be riding a carbon failure fork in the near future?

notoriousDUG said:

Are you kidding me?

He could have had that accident in a freakin' tank and still been dead as a doornail; the human body can only decelerate so fast.

But that is really off the subject...  so why is there an issue with 'the airplane thing' beyond that fact that it proves you wrong?

Carbon Fiber, and other similar composites, have been used in structural applications in aircraft for YEARS and are proven to be sound technology.  Not only does it have an excellent strength to weight ratio but it offers a degree of flex that other materials do not which is why it is so nice for a bike frame.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Oh geez, here we go with the airplane thing again. Sure there is that necessity to have the planes be lighter, just as sports cars have caught on to the carbon failure craze.

Poor Paul Walker, if only he crashed in a not so foo foo shi shi kind of race machine he prolly wood have survived.

notoriousDUG said:

I am surprised to see such an inaccurate statement from you.

Carbon fiber is, and had been, used in major structural members of aircraft for decades now.  Airbus was using it in empenage and tail structure on the 320.  Properly laid up carbon is very, very strong and very, very safe.  There is no titanium, steel or aluminum (AL is the primary spar material on most older commercial jets) in the 787 which has a composite spar.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by S on April 3, 2014 at 7:13am

Most road bikes out there past the lowest end versions have carbon fiber forks.  There have been recalls from time to time but no mass carnage so it's pretty apparent that carbon fiber doesn't fail and kill people if you breathe on it wrong.  Your shop may have been doing sketchy things but not all carbon fiber manufacturers do that.

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Good luck ;)

notoriousDUG said:

Well I am planning on purchasing a bike with a carbon fork so yeah, I probably will...

• ▶ Reply

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