Failure of Carbon Fiber Frame?
Has anyone experienced a break/crack/failure of a carbon fiber frame and crashed? If so, please PM me here or shoot me an email at mkeating@keatinglegal.com.
I am helping a local Chicago rider who was badly injured when the carbon fiber frame on his roadbike failed and want to see if there is a phenomena that has occurred before. Thanks in advance. Ride Safe.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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Chase that ambulance.
There is a ton of stuff on the internet to give you all the stories of carbon failures you want so thanks for putting this here to further fuel the ill-informed perception that carbon frames and parts and dangerous.
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Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on
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To be clear - you're talking about "chasing the ambulance" carrying the cyclist who was badly injured when the machine he was on catastrophically and unexpectedly failed on him, right? Like that's the sort of thing that carbon fiber bikes just do?
notoriousDUG said:Chase that ambulance.
There is a ton of stuff on the internet to give you all the stories of carbon failures you want so thanks for putting this here to further fuel the ill-informed perception that carbon frames and parts and dangerous.
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Permalink Reply by Skip Montanaro 0mi on
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Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on
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I had a carbon front fork break while I was riding. I will never ride carbon again, even for free.
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Permalink Reply by S on
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That latest update there is from 2011 and most of the pictures are from incidents such as hitting things when doing 30mph or bikes on roof racks meeting garage doors or concrete.
Skip Montanaro 12mi said:
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I think carbon fiber frames and components have gotten much better in last 10 years or so. People regularly get carbon fiber downhill bikes and given that those bikes get ridden down through rock gardens, drops, jumps and even stairs as fast as possible, I think it's safe to say that carbon fiber can be made to be really tough and strong.
Getting back to Mike's original question, depending on where the frame broke, it could be due to a defect, damage or even a mechanic over-tightening something.
Jeff Schneider said:I don't believe carbon fiber components are inherently dangerous. But don't you all think it's important for the rider to know that catastrophic failure is possible when a component has suffered damage (from, say, a collision or even just falling over)? People used to steel (where a frame with a big dent is perfectly safe to ride forever) might not understand that a carbon fiber frame with a little crack could be really dangerous.
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Permalink Reply by ad on
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No matter what material we're talking about, defects (either in the design itself or in the manufacturing) are an unfortunate and inherent part of the manufacturing process in the age of mass production.
Calling someone an ambulance chaser when they're simply trying to do their job and determine what happened in order to represent the interests of a seriously injured cyclist adds nothing to a conversation, and basically amounts to you being a dick to be a dick.
notoriousDUG said:Chase that ambulance.
There is a ton of stuff on the internet to give you all the stories of carbon failures you want so thanks for putting this here to further fuel the ill-informed perception that carbon frames and parts and dangerous.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Fiasco on
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Carbon is safe - as long as your mechanic knows what he's doing with it. They don't survive crashes very well but that's no fault of the design but the fault of whoever did the crashing.
"Just riding along" failures? Very doubtful.
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There is seeking compensation for those who have been wronged or were injured at the hands of negligent parties and then there is looking for somebody to blame and a pay day. Having been involved in frivolous shotgun style law suits I know how damaging they can be, financially and emotionally, to the people and businesses that end up in court not because there is legitimate liability but because there are attorneys, and clients, out there who will try to sue anyone if they think they can.
What I see here is the potential for shops, manufactures and others to be dragged though the mud because they touched a bike that was crashed.
I'm sorry but crowd sourcing stories about crashes on carbon is not exactly what I would call good research.
ad said:No matter what material we're talking about, defects (either in the design itself or in the manufacturing) are an unfortunate and inherent part of the manufacturing process in the age of mass production.
Calling someone an ambulance chaser when they're simply trying to do their job and determine what happened in order to represent the interests of a seriously injured cyclist adds nothing to a conversation, and basically amounts to you being a dick to be a dick.
notoriousDUG said:Chase that ambulance.
There is a ton of stuff on the internet to give you all the stories of carbon failures you want so thanks for putting this here to further fuel the ill-informed perception that carbon frames and parts and dangerous.
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As others have noted above, a carbon frame and/or part generally fails for one of three reasons: (1) a design/manufacturing defect (and they may be rare, but they do happen); (2) a mechanic over-tightens or damages a part, which compromises its integrity and leads to failure; or (3) damage (known or unknown) occurred to the frame, which led to its failure. I'd actually add a fourth, which is that carbon frames/parts have been around long enough that some of those frames/parts (especially early carbon versions, like those bonded to other metals) may now be reaching the end of their life expectancy with regards to fatigue.
Two of the above-mentioned situations clearly involve negligent actions that would likely lead to liability (defect and/or mechanic error). The other two arguably do not, though I could see an argument based on failure to properly warn consumers of the life expectancy of a carbon part.
Neither you nor I know which situation the frame that allegedly failed falls into at this point.
Maybe there are better ways to conduct the research, and I'd imagine this is a situation where a materials expert will have to weigh in to see what actually happened, but as an attorney myself I get extremely offended when people start slinging mud and accusations of frivolous lawsuits/ambulance chasing conduct based simply on their own perceived flaws with our justice system.
You have NO clue whether this guy has a legitimate claim, so don't act like you do simply because you think the problems surrounding carbon are exaggerated. And especially don't act like you know this claim is frivolous simply because you feel you have been unjustly sued in the past by others. You'd be upset if I made ungrounded accusations regarding your profession based solely on my own subjective opinion, so expect a similar reaction when you make such assumptions regarding my profession.
notoriousDUG said:There is seeking compensation for those who have been wronged or were injured at the hands of negligent parties and then there is looking for somebody to blame and a pay day. Having been involved in frivolous shotgun style law suits I know how damaging they can be, financially and emotionally, to the people and businesses that end up in court not because there is legitimate liability but because there are attorneys, and clients, out there who will try to sue anyone if they think they can.
What I see here is the potential for shops, manufactures and others to be dragged though the mud because they touched a bike that was crashed.
I'm sorry but crowd sourcing stories about crashes on carbon is not exactly what I would call good research.
ad said:No matter what material we're talking about, defects (either in the design itself or in the manufacturing) are an unfortunate and inherent part of the manufacturing process in the age of mass production.
Calling someone an ambulance chaser when they're simply trying to do their job and determine what happened in order to represent the interests of a seriously injured cyclist adds nothing to a conversation, and basically amounts to you being a dick to be a dick.
notoriousDUG said:Chase that ambulance.
There is a ton of stuff on the internet to give you all the stories of carbon failures you want so thanks for putting this here to further fuel the ill-informed perception that carbon frames and parts and dangerous.
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Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on
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Working in a shop that has produced carbon failure parts. The ONLY thing that material is good for are panels. Structural components made with that stuff is a BIG gamble, unless it is used with some sort of titanium or even REAL steel frame work.
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