de-icing/salting oak street curve

Does anyone know whom to call to attempt to get the path salted at the Oak Street Curve?

 It's annoying that I ride the entire north branch of the path and spend a disproportionately long amount of time traversing 150 yards of ice at the curve. 

Today was my first time back to work and this is my first year taking that route daily so I'm not familiar with how often that section is iced over.  It seems to me it's a lawsuit waiting to happen as it is ice from the lake all the way to the inner wall at the roadway.  With the sloping grade and the smoothness of the ice, I don't think it's inconceivable that someone could slip and fall and slide all the way into the lake.

I understand that most "sane" people wouldn't ride in this weather so my complaint only has so much room to run/ride, but I have no problem with the cold, just the ice.  As Rahm and Gabe are publicly promoting bicycling as transportation in Chicago, shouldn't the crown jewel of a transportation thoroughfare be made navigable, if even with typical half-assery?

I would like to see concrete, highway construction barriers put in temporarily along that curve at the line separating the concrete near the lake from the newly repaved asphalt.  Even if that didn't prevent all the water from splashing up and forming the ice on the path, it would provide a physical barrier to hit before falling into the lake if one were to slip and fall.

In the city that works, with a Streets and Sanitation department with a thirst for overtime, am I unrealistic in thinking that this should be and easy and obvious fix?

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Permalink Reply by Chris B on January 6, 2012 at 10:57am

With my studded tires (schwalbe marathons) I can get around it ok over the ice, I go slow since turning on ice even with the tires is difficult. However, the big problem is people walking their bikes in front of me. Trying to go around them means more turning, and also means going down farther onto steeper portions of the slope (at least it feels steeper only 4' down from the wall than right next to the wall)

so as long as no one else is around i can ride with my studded tires over it, but there are too many other crazy people also trying to ride around. I am not sure if that's more dangerous than the streets, i've had so many close calls lately (even walking) that I went back to the path.

However, I turned 40 a few months ago, and have been realizing every little spill that was nothing 15 years ago now feels major.



kiltedcelt said:

I've been planning on studded tires myself, but I think that section is too dangerous to ride, even with studded tires, if  it's heavily iced. I'll stick to my detour. That, and I can't start out on that section and turn around if I find it impassable - that's just too much extra time added to my morning commute. I think I'm just going to switch to my alternate route and stick with that for the next two to three months.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 6, 2012 at 12:04pm

+1

Liz said:

I really don't think you understand the engineering significance of this project.  

While it seems like a small segment of sidewalk, it is not possible to simply salt this area to remove ice.  There is simply too much water that is continuously washed up onto the path here.  It is a complicated project and even when a solution is designed, it would take several months to construct (during the summer) vs closing this segment during the winter when its use is limited.  It would cost the city/army corp a lot of money. 

I would rather the city spend its resources creating a viable alternate route with protected lanes on inner lake shore drive and a proper connection back to the path where inner lake shore drive ends. This would cost the city significantly less and allow a safe path around the area.   


Dirke said:

Cameron,

That indeed was the discussion on Chainlink, thanks for finding.  But alas, the heroine for that one was not in the thread.  I don't remember where I read about that one but a specific female of the region found a voice and I think was solely responsible for the fix.  I used to be "more-unemployed" and read some blog somewhere where the young lady made some calls, sent some pictures and emails, and it was fixed within 48 hours.  It may have been a link from a link from a Tribune article.

  I understand the difference in situations between that and this but since that situation is the only one of which I'm aware that a citizen/user made a complaint and had it addressed, I thought it would be worthwhile to bark up the same tree.  Maybe that successful, concerned citizen will come across this thread sometime this winter and provide the needed enlightenment.  That's my hope anyway.  In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the area and avoid if icy.  I have studded tires that would make it through that section while laughing at it but they're too heavy to install when that little section is the only one I can't avoid at all if taking the LF path.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 6, 2012 at 12:06pm

Thank you for offering an informed perspective on exactly what is involved from the engineering side.

Liz said:

From my experience (BS & MS in civil engineering, working as a structural engineer for 5+ years and 3 years in a public works department)...


A handrail would be possible to prevent someone from sliding in, it would not stop the waves from hitting that trail (the waves are often well over the wall height).  Creating an impermiable (ie totally concrete and sandbagged) wall would only act as a trap for even more water and ice (i.e. the ice layer would be thicker).  If the rail was permeable (gaps or metal) it would allow the water to flow as it currently does, but it would not reduce the amount of icing that is currently occuring. 

Modifying this area to eliminate icing would cost in my estimate over $1 million dollars.  This is much less than $200k (which is a drop in the bucket when it comes to transportation funding). 

Our society really tends to underestimate how much time, effort and money went into even the most basic things we use everyday.  I am never surprised at how much time I spend spelling out small details or clarifying construction sequences for something that many people would consider routine. 

Permalink Reply by A.K.A Paul on January 6, 2012 at 2:09pm

Not to mention that what we have there now IS a redesign of the of the way it used to be 5 to 10 years  ago.  If memory serves me correctly there was some sort of emergency situation where the curve was in danger of collapsing.  I think there used to be some old fresh water intakes from a water crib out on the lake that is no longer in use.  The curve was closed down for months and completely redone. 

Liz said:

From my experience (BS & MS in civil engineering, working as a structural engineer for 5+ years and 3 years in a public works department)...


A handrail would be possible to prevent someone from sliding in, it would not stop the waves from hitting that trail (the waves are often well over the wall height).  Creating an impermiable (ie totally concrete and sandbagged) wall would only act as a trap for even more water and ice (i.e. the ice layer would be thicker).  If the rail was permeable (gaps or metal) it would allow the water to flow as it currently does, but it would not reduce the amount of icing that is currently occuring. 

Modifying this area to eliminate icing would cost in my estimate over $1 million dollars.  This is much less than $200k (which is a drop in the bucket when it comes to transportation funding). 

Our society really tends to underestimate how much time, effort and money went into even the most basic things we use everyday.  I am never surprised at how much time I spend spelling out small details or clarifying construction sequences for something that many people would consider routine. 

Dirke said:

Liz, I am not an engineer, nor an urban planner, so my pondering is exactly that.  If you have more substantial credentials, then I can't say much more.  But I have read that the Kinzie bike lane, which is hated by all motorists, cost $140K for .5 mile.  The section of roadway you indicate with a connection back to the LFP is at least half again as long.  Let's round up (this is crook county after all) to $200K, the approximate cost to execute your suggestion.

You're telling me that all the money, effort, and political wrangling, not to mention the ire of the majority of citizens who happen to be in cars at that part of the city, is less expensive, and preferable to throwing down some concrete barriers and sand bags for a few months of the year?  I understand that a significant amount of water flows over that curve and efforts to control the lake can be futile, but I still think a small chain of concrete barriers along the lake edge would do a world of good, and be FAR less expensive than any sort of permanent flyover or lane separation of the inner drive.  Outside of the icy months, I actually enjoy trying to time the wave action to be able ride through that area as waves come up as far as the drive wall and flow back out.  It's more of a nuisance or "exciting section" 9 months of the year depending on one's disposition.  During this point of the year, it's potentially deadly, and I think should be dealt with.

Liz said:

Here is my alternate suggestion to modifying the path in this area.  I think this would be a more cost effective solution.

Permalink Reply by John Wirtz on January 6, 2012 at 4:55pm

Might have been me. I fell down here this morning, but was up against the LSD wall, nowhere near sliding to the lake.

Poptart said:

Man I saw a guy bust it hard at the curve this morning and take a "sliding into home" type adventure out on the ice sheet, so glad he didn't have the momentum to make it all the way out to the water. First time back down there in like two weeks. I think I will be sticking to my street route. Don't let the temp fool ya, its still nasty at the corner.  

Permalink Reply by Kevin K on January 6, 2012 at 5:52pm

I agree w/ most of the postings here - doing any sort of redesign of that curve, the breakwater structures, etc would be extremely, extremely expensive.  I'm not a civil engineer, but it would have to be in the millions, if not the tens of millions, of dollars.

I do commute to work and bike that curve every day, and it is annoying when it's covered with ice, but spending millions of dollars on a project just so a fairly small group of winter bike commuters didn't have to take a minor detour 10-30 days out of the year would be a terrible allocation of limited financial resources.  

The Parks Dept, City, and State have a ton of pressing needs and very strained budgets. I'd rather see that money go to putting more police on the street, food programs, etc.

Permalink Reply by John Wirtz on January 7, 2012 at 7:11am

It'll probably get fixed when North Lakeshore Dr is reconstructed in a few years.

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