The Chainlink

Cyclist stop on red legislation-- anyone notice this?

Odd to not have heard anything about such a potentially significant change.

 

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/state-and-regional/illinois/article_...

 

I wonder if Chicago is far behind . . .

Views: 32

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gin on May 30, 2011 at 8:53am

I remember seeing info about it a few weeks ago via LIB or Active Trans.  This should go hand in hand with making it easier for people on bikes and motorcycles to trigger a signal change w/o having to leave the roadway.  This is becoming more and more of an issue even in Chicago.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on May 30, 2011 at 4:24pm
I noted in the article that Chicago is exempt from the proposed bill, so this would be immediately useful in the suburbs, but would still leave us with this increasingly frustrating issue in the city.

Gin said:

I remember seeing info about it a few weeks ago via LIB or Active Trans.  This should go hand in hand with making it easier for people on bikes and motorcycles to trigger a signal change w/o having to leave the roadway.  This is becoming more and more of an issue even in Chicago.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 30, 2011 at 8:12pm

I saw this and see that someone is trying to make things better for a maligned and often disliked minority of road users.

 

It makes me wince, however, when ignorant reporters (even the guys at WBEZ got this wrong) talk about the "weight" of the motorcycle not being enough to trip the sensors that sense the weight of vehicles at the light.  They are called inductive loops for crissakes and was everyone asleep in HS science class when they covered basic electricity???  If the press gets easy stuff like this wrong I hate to think about how much of what they report on is just wrong and ignorantly mis-reported.

 

Anyhow, I think it is nice that the legislature is doing this but it really isn't necessary. I've been riding motorcycles since the 70's and never have a problem with the loops.  If one doesn't sense me it's a simple matter to use basic physics to understand how to fix the problem.  Kill the engine and hit the starter button.  The field in the starter motor at the instant of locked-rotor current is huge and is plenty enough to trip the sensor  if one is stopped with the engine and starter motor directly over the wire loop cut.  I've never had this fail me.  You don't have to be a physicist to understand basic electro-magnetic theory. Any old construction-worker can figure this stuff out.  

 

On a bicycle this doesn't work as we don't have starter motors ;)   -just run the darn red like we do every other red once it is safe to do so.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 31, 2011 at 7:43am

The inductive effect is related to both the mass and the proximity of the ferrous material.  If you have less mass, such as a bicycle or motorcycle, than a half ton or more of automobile then one solution is to get what little ferrous material you do have closer to the loop pick-up conductor.

 

I've experimented with putting my motorcycle kick stand or center stand down directly over the asphalt cut where the wire is embedded.  This works but not nearly as well as the starter trick.  Many/most bicycle kick stands are aluminum although there are a few old Wald steel kickstands out there still on older 3-speeds and single-speed cruisers.  

 

At one time there was a company that was selling rare-earth magnet kits to glue or strap onto a motorcycle kick stand.  I imagine a magnet salvaged out of an old computer hard drive (these are super powerful) strapped to your kickstand or even on one of your bike shoes would do the same trick. 

 

One thing to remember about the inductive field is that MOTION of the magnetic material induces the current so waving it around near the loop wire is more effective than just placing it there.  Induction occurs when a line of magnetic force cuts THROUGH a conductor. This is how a generator works.  The faster you spin a generator the more magnetic lines cut the conductor(s) and induce more current.  


The dumbest thing about these traffic light loops and this "news story"  is that the equipment CAN be adjusted so that a motorcycle or even a steel-framed bicycle is detected.  I'm an electrician and have installed inductive loops professionally and they are capable of very fine levels of sensitivity.  It's just that the schmucks who schlap the things in, and set them up, don't want to spend the time calibrating and adjusting them correctly so that they work properly and instead often just leave the controller set at the factory defaults.  To REALLY do something productive the legislature should just force the city crews that manage these controlled intersections to get off their lazy asses and go out and set them up correctly. 

Permalink Reply by Brendan Kevenides on May 31, 2011 at 10:30am
I think the news media references the size/weight of motorcycles and bikes because the legislation does. I've included the relevant part of the statute in a blog post:  http://www.mybikeadvocate.com/2011/05/new-illinois-law-to-permit-bi...
Permalink Reply by Joe Willis on May 31, 2011 at 10:33am
And if you don't have any steel on your bike?

M.A.R.K. said:
On James point, I always thought it was magnetic, and not based on weight. I have heard stories that if you just put your bike down at a long light, it senses it. As long as your bike is steel.
Permalink Reply by S on May 31, 2011 at 11:01am
All metals are affected by induction, I'm not sure if aluminum or titanium have a strong enough response to register though.  Carbon fiber almost certainly won't be picked up by anything but a really sensitive detector.

Joe Willis said:
And if you don't have any steel on your bike?

M.A.R.K. said:
On James point, I always thought it was magnetic, and not based on weight. I have heard stories that if you just put your bike down at a long light, it senses it. As long as your bike is steel.
Permalink Reply by Rene Lawell on May 31, 2011 at 12:13pm

I think this is a good idea. The problem becomes who decide what is a fiar amount of time.

As a motorcyclist in the suburbds I deal with thisall the time. You can get a redlight changer

and use it for this excat purpose. See link: http://www.bikerhiway.com/red-light-changer-p-2.html

 

Rene

Permalink Reply by JeffB on May 31, 2011 at 1:33pm

We're catching up to Wisconsin:

from http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/bicycle/docs/bikelaws.pdf

 

4. Notwithstanding

subd. 1., a motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle facing a red signal at an intersection may, after stopping as required under subd. 1. for not less than 45 seconds, proceed cautiously through the intersection before the signal turns green if no other vehicles are present at the intersection to actuate the signal and the operator of the motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle reasonably believes the signal is vehicle actuated. The operator of a motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or bicycle proceeding through a red signal under this subdivision shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicular traffic, pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device proceeding through a green signal at the intersection or lawfully within a crosswalk or using the intersection.
Permalink Reply by Active Transportation Alliance on May 31, 2011 at 3:39pm

Motorcyclists initiated this bill and we asked that bicyclists be included as part of our legislative agenda.

 

We just posted this blog about it. copied/pasted below.

 

Thanks,

Ethan Spotts, Active Trans

 

Submitted by dpersky on Tue, 05/31/2011 - 10:02am

Bicyclists straight on red bill passes

 

On Sunday, while you were enjoying 30 miles of car-free cycling on Lake Shore Drive, the Illinois General Assembly was hard at work. In an overwhelming vote (101-11), they passed HB 2860. It now goes to Gov. Pat Quinn for his signature.

This bill will allow bicyclists to treat a red light as a stop sign and proceed with caution if the red light fails to turn green in a reasonable amount of time. The bill's provisions only apply if the red light signal fails to detect the cyclist due to the light weight of the bike or another signal malfunction. The bill does not apply in the City of Chicago.

An initiative of the motorcyclists (who would also be covered) lobby, the bill is controversial. What is a reasonable amount of time? Can the straight on red provision lead to more cycle v. pedestrian crashes? Will the bill create more confusion on the roadway?

If the bill becomes law, Active Trans enourages you to exercise caution. Only proceed on red after coming to a complete stop, ensuring there is no danger from cross traffic and ensuring that there are no pedestrians in the intersection.

Permalink Reply by Active Transportation Alliance on May 31, 2011 at 4:00pm

My apologies, it wasn't part of our agenda, but we did ask to include bicyclists.

 

Thanks,

Ethan, with Active Trans

Permalink Reply by Mike Keating on June 1, 2011 at 10:47am

I did a post on this on www.IllinoisBicycleLaw.com.

 

This bill has problems that should have been fixed early on in the drafting stage. What is "reasonable?" I don't understand why they couldn't have quantified the time before going through a red if the light doesn't change.

 

What is also interesting is this bill was originally put forth by the motorcycle lobby. It's interesting that the motorcycle lobby got this pushed through with what appears to be little resistance.

RSS

Groups

© 2008-2016   The Chainlink Community, L.L.C.   Powered by

Disclaimer  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service