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CTA considers Closing Up To Five Red/Purple Line Stops

UGG!!!! Say it ain't so!

 

CTA Considers Chopping Two Evanston Stations

 

CTA May Close Up To Five Red/Purple Line Stops

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Permalink Reply by Dan Korn on January 28, 2011 at 3:10pm
Anne Alt said:

Dan - While I agree with your point about many areas of the south and west side being terribly underserved by transit, that doesn't make these proposed closures a good thing.  Don't assume that everyone in Evanston is rich, white and spoiled.  Far from it.

I never said anything about anyone being rich, white, and spoiled, nor do I assume as much. (Although compared to most of my neighbors in Little Village, I'm rich, white, and spoiled.)

I merely made a factual statement about the disparity in transit service, especially rail service, between the area in Evanston affected by the station closings in question, and most of the rest of Chicago and its nearby suburbs, particularly on the South and West Sides. And that disparity is quite glaring, regardless of the racial or socioeconomic demographics of those areas. But I can see how one might read a suggestion of race or wealth bias into the service disparity, even though that wasn't really my point, and even though I didn't actually say it. And this disparity goes way beyond the CTA, but that's a larger discussion.

I don't see it as a zero-sum game, that we're somehow going to get more service in different parts of town if we reduce it in Evanston. We need to bridge that gap in service by adding, not cutting. It just seems a little bit precious of the folks there to complain about losing one of three rapid transit stations within a half-mile stretch while people in other neighborhoods have much longer walks to get to a train, or even to a bus. Kind of like people in San Diego complaining about the weather.

Also, there is a phenomenon where anytime anyone changes anything, people complain, even if the change is for the betterment of most people. People just don't like change, whether it's a new Facebook redesign, or health care reform, or a change in CTA service. For instance, when they added the Pink Line, some people in Little Village and the West Side were up in arms about losing their "direct trip to O'Hare" on the Blue Line, even though, with the Pink Like, the vast majority of trips to all destinations in the CTA system are now quicker with the increased service that splitting off from the Blue Line allowed, and most trips to O'Hare are actually just as fast, even with a transfer. Of course, now everyone is used to the new setup, and they would complain if it changed back. (Well, so would I, because the Pink Line is actually better.) So while I empathize with people's anecdotes about how a change may make their particular situation more difficult, it may not be so for everyone, and once you get used to the new setup and the other changes that go along with it, you may find it's actually better for you too.

I also realize that some of the gaps would be larger, depending on which stations are closed. But having stops too close together isn't necessarily better service. The train has to make more stops, which slows things down. Redundant stops are required for buses as well. Each stop has less pedestrian traffic, which reduces the perception of safety. There are reasons why more stations translate to better service too, of course, but it's a point of diminishing returns.
Permalink Reply by Jason W on January 28, 2011 at 4:37pm
I've always been a blue liner, and I have to say I was always surprised at how many stop there are on the red line up there. It's kind of excessive frankly.
Permalink Reply by David on January 28, 2011 at 10:25pm

I used to live just south of the Jarvis stop, and the constant stops on the red line made the trip to the loop ridiculously long and annoying.  I think that closing some of the stops and opening alternate entrances to others would be a great idea up there.

 

This is one of those situations where the vast majority of riders would gain a little bit every day from the closings, but a very small number would lose a lot. Overall, it's a big time saver for commuters in general, but politically it's really hard to achieve things like this.  If 99% of the riders gain a few minutes but 1% lose 15 minutes a day, it's that 1% who will show up at the meetings.

 

Jason W said:

I've always been a blue liner, and I have to say I was always surprised at how many stop there are on the red line up there. It's kind of excessive frankly.
Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on January 29, 2011 at 6:05pm

Instead pf permanently closing stops they should try what the 1/9 did in Manhattan which was a 2 train line and only have certain stops open during rush periods/daytime weekday hours then close overnight/weekends besides the Purple only runs on weekdays anyway, why inconvenience people who use it to work in the city?

 

Also the CTA owns most if not all of the property directly adjacent to these stops where people set up business, close the stop and you also lose revenue.

 

Thorndale is dead after 10pm and Granville is 3 blocks away so that wouldn't really be an inconvenience plus the 147 Xpress runs down Sheridan, 151 runs all night.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on January 30, 2011 at 11:36am

Mike, I've got some timetables to show you.

 

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/rail_route_schedules/Purple_...

 


Mike Zumwalt said:

besides the Purple only runs on weekdays anyway

Permalink Reply by Dan Korn on January 31, 2011 at 12:17am

Well, looks like it's a non-issue after all, according to Jon Hilkevitch.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on January 31, 2011 at 1:06am

I don't get the grab bar reference.  Is he trying to suggest Purple Line riders are elderly and/or infirm?

 

You can calm down, all you Red and Purple Line riders who reached for the grab bars last week when word spread that the CTA will close five rail stations.

Dan Korn said:

Well, looks like it's a non-issue after all, according to Jon Hilkevitch.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 31, 2011 at 7:37am

That might be a better compromise.

 

About Thorndale, I used to live near there years ago.  It was dead after 10, and that doesn't seem to have changed.  Thorndale was my closest stop, but I used the 147 or 151 bus at night, because the area around the Thorndale station was a bit sketchy at night.  Doesn't seem like that's changed much either.

 

With Bus Tracker, it's a lot easier to avoid spending long times waiting on the street for a bus.


Mike Zumwalt said:

Instead pf permanently closing stops they should try what the 1/9 did in Manhattan which was a 2 train line and only have certain stops open during rush periods/daytime weekday hours then close overnight/weekends besides the Purple only runs on weekdays anyway, why inconvenience people who use it to work in the city?

 

Also the CTA owns most if not all of the property directly adjacent to these stops where people set up business, close the stop and you also lose revenue.

 

Thorndale is dead after 10pm and Granville is 3 blocks away so that wouldn't really be an inconvenience plus the 147 Xpress runs down Sheridan, 151 runs all night.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 31, 2011 at 7:48am

I didn't read it as being a non-issue.  More like one that won't happen right away.

 

Offering feedback on this plan is worthwhile so that the CTA gets the message about which stops really matter to their riders. If they hear that closing stations is NOT an acceptable option to us, then hopefully they'll take that idea off the table.  They need to hear from lots of us to get that message.

 

I really don't want to see Jarvis close.  It would be a public safety issue for those folks who live near Jarvis and feel safer going there than to Howard or Morse.  It would also be a disaster for the great little business district around Jarvis and Greenview.  If the station were closed, that area would really be hurt.  Reduced traffic to those businesses would likely translate into some going under as well as increased street crime.  That was the pattern when that location had fewer viable businesses.  Good businesses went under and were replaced by vacant storefronts or businesses that attracted problems.

 

I agree with Dan that we need more service in the city overall, not less.  Areas that lack service need to get service.  Erasing the disparity in service between different areas of the city should be a long-term goal. 

 

Dan Korn said:

Well, looks like it's a non-issue after all, according to Jon Hilkevitch.

Permalink Reply by Jason W on January 31, 2011 at 9:01am
The problem is they might not have the tracks and switches to accommodate this, which would, of course, cost money. They are trying to save money by closing stops, this is just the opposite.

Mike Zumwalt said:

Instead pf permanently closing stops they should try what the 1/9 did in Manhattan which was a 2 train line and only have certain stops open during rush periods/daytime weekday hours then close overnight/weekends besides the Purple only runs on weekdays anyway, why inconvenience people who use it to work in the city?

 

Also the CTA owns most if not all of the property directly adjacent to these stops where people set up business, close the stop and you also lose revenue.

 

Thorndale is dead after 10pm and Granville is 3 blocks away so that wouldn't really be an inconvenience plus the 147 Xpress runs down Sheridan, 151 runs all night.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 31, 2011 at 9:15am

My wife tells me that the Red Line used to have an A/B system years ago.  There were A trains that stopped at only certain stations once it got out from downtown, and B trains that only stopped at certain other stations as they got out of town, and AB trains that stopped at all stations.  You had to look for the letter you wanted before you got onto a train while downtown to make sure it stopped at the station  you wanted to get off on.

 

There was no need for switching of tracks or passing of trains as no train stayed in the station long enough to cause the train behind it to have to wait.  The theory was that there was enough time between trains that the slinky of alternatingly stopping trains never bumped into itself.

 

But that was many years ago. She doesn't know why they stopped doing this.

 

Jason W said:

The problem is they might not have the tracks and switches to accommodate this, which would, of course, cost money. They are trying to save money by closing stops, this is just the opposite.

Mike Zumwalt said:

Instead pf permanently closing stops they should try what the 1/9 did in Manhattan which was a 2 train line and only have certain stops open during rush periods/daytime weekday hours then close overnight/weekends besides the Purple only runs on weekdays anyway, why inconvenience people who use it to work in the city?

 

Also the CTA owns most if not all of the property directly adjacent to these stops where people set up business, close the stop and you also lose revenue.

 

Thorndale is dead after 10pm and Granville is 3 blocks away so that wouldn't really be an inconvenience plus the 147 Xpress runs down Sheridan, 151 runs all night.

 

 

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