Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David on October 4, 2010 at 2:38am

The link to the bike rack is below, there's about a dozen bikes parked there but still a few empty spaces. It is a wave rack as I remembered.

Admittedly, the main rack at that strip mall isn't absolutely directly in front of Dominicks, it's a less-than-30-second walk away on the other side of Marshall's, but that's not exactly an onerous trek. The upside is that it's directly in front of the security office.


http://maps.google.com/?q=1792+Birchwood,+chicago,+il&ie=UTF8&a...


H3N3 said:

You can actually follow google street view along the front of the Dominic's as the fire lane is apparently considered to be part of Birchwood street (address for the whole thing shows as 1792 Birchwood).
I'm not seeing anything that looks like a decent rack-- in fact there are a couple of bikes outside one store that look to be free-locked in the picture.

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Permalink Reply by Rick norris on October 4, 2010 at 4:33am

One place that has horrible bike parking is Brookfield zoo.
Right at the end of Salt Creek path. There is a nice little opening in the fence to the parking lot, when you ride in just to the south of the ticket stand is a beat up old wheel rack. I Dont even think it's bolted into the ground, and it's half on grass half taking up a car spot. It also looks like it got ran over once or twice.

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Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on October 4, 2010 at 4:52am

The key language in the Municipal Code is "Racks and other fixtures used to provide required bicycle parking for nonresidential uses must be of a design that is approved by the Chicago Department of Transportation." Section 17-10-0302-A.

Problems:
1. No one asks CDOT which designs are approved. This is the Department of Zoning and Land Use Planning's responsibility.
2. The only "list" CDOT has of approved bike racks is really just a list of rack types CDOT has installed.



Anne Alt said:

I did some research to find out why less-than-adequate bike parking (poorly installed or poor design) has been installed at many buildings where bike parking is required under the revised code. I learned that there's a big old loophole - no firm standards for what an appropriate rack is, nothing specifying that installation specs must be obtained and adhered to, and no inspection to ensure that a rack was installed to the specs.

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 4, 2010 at 1:38pm

That's right. The rack right in front of Dominick's is (or at least was, unless they've changed it recently) an old-style bare metal rack installed VERY close to the store wall. There is a wave rack at the opposite corner of the parking lot, by the atrium entrance to the health club. That rack has often been full when I've been there. Since the renovation of Howard station was completed, there is now bike parking inside the station, which is another block further away from Dominick's.

Does anyone consider one good rack that's a full block away from Dominick's (opposite corner of the parking lot) to be acceptable parking for Dominick's? I don't.

David said:

Are you talking about the store on Howard next to the red line terminal? I used to live up there and until recently I kept a PO Box at that UPS store, so I rode my bike to that store constantly up until a few months ago and never had a problem parking at the bike rack (right next to the exit to the red line). I'll admit I don't really remember the quality of the parking, I just park at the racked without really thinking about it (I *think* it's a wave rack). Maybe it *is* too close and I've just parked at an angle and not paid much attention, but there's definitely been many more than 2 or 3 bikes there.

I've been in Chicago less than two years, so it's quite possible that things are much better around the (north side of the) city than they used to be, which would be one reason our experiences are so different.

Anyway, I completely agree with you and Steve that *all* the markets should have bike parking, but it simply isn't the case that almost none of them do.

Anne Alt said:

When I lived in Rogers Park, the then-new Dominick's store (built around 2003) had an old-style rack installed in front of the store - too close to the wall, so it was only useable by 2 or 3 bikes. I've encountered the same problem on other north side stores further from downtown. Where there IS a useable rack, it's usually a 2-bike city rack on a sidewalk near the grocery store.

David said:

You may be right about a majority of markets in the city, but location matters a lot here. I regularly hit most of the supermarkets near me, namely the Dominicks on Chicago, on Clybourn and on Grand (occasionally), Jewel on Desplaines and on Ashland/Milwaukee, Trader Joes on Clybourn and Ontario, and I've never had a problem finding bike parking at any of them (with TJ, often one rack fills and you have to use another, though). And riding around the city, Dominicks is usually where I stop for a CLIF bar or something if I need quick energy, and I can't remember ever not finding bike parking at one.

Now I don't find myself down on 95th St. very often, which I'm sure is much worse for bikes. And the areas I frequent tend to be pretty bike-friendly (that's why I frequent them). But it's just not my experience that Dominicks typically has NO bike parking. I think that like most things in Chicago, there's a huge north side/south side split in this area.

BTW, someone above complained about bike parking at Jewel on Ashland, but I've always treated the grating in front of the store as a huge bike rack and nobody has ever complained. OTOH, somebody also mentioned Stanley's on North, which is the one store in the city where I regularly find myself with no place to park. It's not just the lack of racks there it's also the bizarre absence of any street signs.

Anne Alt said:

The majority of other Dominick's locations provide NO bike parking, or have bike racks too close to the wall or in places where they get buried in shopping carts, rendering them useless.

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 4, 2010 at 1:40pm

That one was added more recently and is even further away from Dominick's - downstairs on the other side of the atrium. That's not a 30 second walk, especially not with bags of groceries. Being in front of the security office is the only plus, IMO.

David said:

The link to the bike rack is below, there's about a dozen bikes parked there but still a few empty spaces. It is a wave rack as I remembered.

Admittedly, the main rack at that strip mall isn't absolutely directly in front of Dominicks, it's a less-than-30-second walk away on the other side of Marshall's, but that's not exactly an onerous trek. The upside is that it's directly in front of the security office.


http://maps.google.com/?q=1792+Birchwood,+chicago,+il&ie=UTF8&a...


H3N3 said:

You can actually follow google street view along the front of the Dominic's as the fire lane is apparently considered to be part of Birchwood street (address for the whole thing shows as 1792 Birchwood).
I'm not seeing anything that looks like a decent rack-- in fact there are a couple of bikes outside one store that look to be free-locked in the picture.

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 4, 2010 at 1:41pm

That's exactly the problem - that in addition to the lack of inspection or any oversight on what type of rack is being installed where. It's a loophole you could drive a truck through.

Steven Vance said:

The key language in the Municipal Code is "Racks and other fixtures used to provide required bicycle parking for nonresidential uses must be of a design that is approved by the Chicago Department of Transportation." Section 17-10-0302-A.

Problems:
1. No one asks CDOT which designs are approved. This is the Department of Zoning and Land Use Planning's responsibility.
2. The only "list" CDOT has of approved bike racks is really just a list of rack types CDOT has installed.



Anne Alt said:

I did some research to find out why less-than-adequate bike parking (poorly installed or poor design) has been installed at many buildings where bike parking is required under the revised code. I learned that there's a big old loophole - no firm standards for what an appropriate rack is, nothing specifying that installation specs must be obtained and adhered to, and no inspection to ensure that a rack was installed to the specs.

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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on October 4, 2010 at 2:13pm

A block away? No way. I like the Broadway (and Thorndale) Dominicks' bike parking situation. Two wave racks on Broadway, 2 Bike Lids in front of the store nearer the train tracks.

Anne Alt said:

That's right. The rack right in front of Dominick's is (or at least was, unless they've changed it recently) an old-style bare metal rack installed VERY close to the store wall. There is a wave rack at the opposite corner of the parking lot, by the atrium entrance to the health club. That rack has often been full when I've been there. Since the renovation of Howard station was completed, there is now bike parking inside the station, which is another block further away from Dominick's.

Does anyone consider one good rack that's a full block away from Dominick's (opposite corner of the parking lot) to be acceptable parking for Dominick's? I don't.

David said:

Are you talking about the store on Howard next to the red line terminal? I used to live up there and until recently I kept a PO Box at that UPS store, so I rode my bike to that store constantly up until a few months ago and never had a problem parking at the bike rack (right next to the exit to the red line). I'll admit I don't really remember the quality of the parking, I just park at the racked without really thinking about it (I *think* it's a wave rack). Maybe it *is* too close and I've just parked at an angle and not paid much attention, but there's definitely been many more than 2 or 3 bikes there.

I've been in Chicago less than two years, so it's quite possible that things are much better around the (north side of the) city than they used to be, which would be one reason our experiences are so different.

Anyway, I completely agree with you and Steve that *all* the markets should have bike parking, but it simply isn't the case that almost none of them do.

Anne Alt said:

When I lived in Rogers Park, the then-new Dominick's store (built around 2003) had an old-style rack installed in front of the store - too close to the wall, so it was only useable by 2 or 3 bikes. I've encountered the same problem on other north side stores further from downtown. Where there IS a useable rack, it's usually a 2-bike city rack on a sidewalk near the grocery store.

David said:

You may be right about a majority of markets in the city, but location matters a lot here. I regularly hit most of the supermarkets near me, namely the Dominicks on Chicago, on Clybourn and on Grand (occasionally), Jewel on Desplaines and on Ashland/Milwaukee, Trader Joes on Clybourn and Ontario, and I've never had a problem finding bike parking at any of them (with TJ, often one rack fills and you have to use another, though). And riding around the city, Dominicks is usually where I stop for a CLIF bar or something if I need quick energy, and I can't remember ever not finding bike parking at one.

Now I don't find myself down on 95th St. very often, which I'm sure is much worse for bikes. And the areas I frequent tend to be pretty bike-friendly (that's why I frequent them). But it's just not my experience that Dominicks typically has NO bike parking. I think that like most things in Chicago, there's a huge north side/south side split in this area.

BTW, someone above complained about bike parking at Jewel on Ashland, but I've always treated the grating in front of the store as a huge bike rack and nobody has ever complained. OTOH, somebody also mentioned Stanley's on North, which is the one store in the city where I regularly find myself with no place to park. It's not just the lack of racks there it's also the bizarre absence of any street signs.

Anne Alt said:

The majority of other Dominick's locations provide NO bike parking, or have bike racks too close to the wall or in places where they get buried in shopping carts, rendering them useless.

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Permalink Reply by David on October 4, 2010 at 3:42pm

I'm not sure if you meant to respond to this post or to a different one, but that link is to a rack on the same level of Dominick's, not downstairs. I suspect it's the rack you mentioned earlier next to the atrium, except that it's at the midpoint of the parking lot, certainly not at the opposite corner. Personally, I always found it perfectly convenient to walk to the market from there (it's just two stores down in the strip mall), but obviously YMMV. I realize some people really hate to walk. It's roughly the same distance I'd walk to my car when I've driven there. I think we get a little spoiled with front-door parking.

Personally I've never had a problem parking my bike there, but if you've often found it full, then obviously it's not adequate. However, there can be no doubt that it's more than "no racks at all or one rack installed so close to a wall that it can only be used by a few bikes". Dominicks isn't going to win any prizes for excellent bike parking, but there's parking for at least half a dozen bikes at virtually every north side store, often much more (I think Roscoe/Western would be the only exception, though Clybourn/Division comes close). If somebody is telling you or Steven that it's corporate policy to have no bike parking, that person is simply lying.

Anne Alt said:

That one was added more recently and is even further away from Dominick's - downstairs on the other side of the atrium. That's not a 30 second walk, especially not with bags of groceries. Being in front of the security office is the only plus, IMO.

David said:

The link to the bike rack is below, there's about a dozen bikes parked there but still a few empty spaces. It is a wave rack as I remembered.

Admittedly, the main rack at that strip mall isn't absolutely directly in front of Dominicks, it's a less-than-30-second walk away on the other side of Marshall's, but that's not exactly an onerous trek. The upside is that it's directly in front of the security office.


http://maps.google.com/?q=1792+Birchwood,+chicago,+il&ie=UTF8&a...

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 4, 2010 at 4:07pm

Sorry. At first glance, I thought it was on the downstairs side. If someone is a single person doing a light shopping trip, walking all the way across the parking lot is okay. If you're shopping for more than one person and buying a trailer's worth of stuff, it's a long walk.

I never said it was corporate policy NOT to have bike parking, or have good bike parking. My experience has been that most Dominick's or Jewel stores I've visited anywhere in the city have had no bike parking or inadequate bike parking, and store managers have been indifferent to requests.

One of my main motivations in starting this topic was to get descriptions and pictures from people of what they encounter when they go to grocery or other major stores that they would prefer to visit by bike. I hoped to get a better sense of how good or bad the big picture looks outside of what I see.

For example, has the bike parking at Clark-Devon hardware gotten any better recently? In years past, it was similar to the Howard-Clark Dominick's situation (the parking right by the store) - less than ideal - and the manager was indifferent to requests from customers and employees.

Are there other major stores you visit in the city that need better bike parking OR stores that are an example of excellent bike parking?

David said:

I'm not sure if you meant to respond to this post or to a different one, but that link is to a rack on the same level of Dominick's, not downstairs. I suspect it's the rack you mentioned earlier next to the atrium, except that it's at the midpoint of the parking lot, certainly not at the opposite corner. Personally, I always found it perfectly convenient to walk to the market from there (it's just two stores down in the strip mall), but obviously YMMV. I realize some people really hate to walk. It's roughly the same distance I'd walk to my car when I've driven there. I think we get a little spoiled with front-door parking.

Personally I've never had a problem parking my bike there, but if you've often found it full, then obviously it's not adequate. However, there can be no doubt that it's more than "no racks at all or one rack installed so close to a wall that it can only be used by a few bikes". Dominicks isn't going to win any prizes for excellent bike parking, but there's parking for at least half a dozen bikes at virtually every north side store, often much more (I think Roscoe/Western would be the only exception, though Clybourn/Division comes close). If somebody is telling you or Steven that it's corporate policy to have no bike parking, that person is simply lying.

Anne Alt said:

That one was added more recently and is even further away from Dominick's - downstairs on the other side of the atrium. That's not a 30 second walk, especially not with bags of groceries. Being in front of the security office is the only plus, IMO.

David said:

The link to the bike rack is below, there's about a dozen bikes parked there but still a few empty spaces. It is a wave rack as I remembered.

Admittedly, the main rack at that strip mall isn't absolutely directly in front of Dominicks, it's a less-than-30-second walk away on the other side of Marshall's, but that's not exactly an onerous trek. The upside is that it's directly in front of the security office.


http://maps.google.com/?q=1792+Birchwood,+chicago,+il&ie=UTF8&a...

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Permalink Reply by David on October 4, 2010 at 4:49pm

Let's be specific, because I find the issue pretty interesting. I'm always trying to convince people that living car-less in Chicago isn't difficult and that it's easy to go grocery shopping on the bike, so I generally take notice of what bike parking is around. Since Dominick's is unionized I usually try to do general shopping there, so here's the stores I know, along with some occasional pictures:

Chicago/Damen: 5 u-racks scattered around the store, plus some heavily used signposts and (sadly) trees on Chicago. I go here all the time and I've never not found parking, so it's hard to complain. But for such a bike-heavy neighborhood, they could do better.

Fullerton: like the one above, they rely on a ton of city u-racks on the sidewalks surrounding the store. But there's a *lot* of bike parking at this store since it's at DePaul.

Halsted: 3-4 u-racks along the front, but there's a grating in front that's the perfect height for locking up bikes, so in practice there's plenty of parking. In the background here, you can see bikes locked to the grating

Division/Clybourn: There's this:

Now, that's really not so bad because it's installed correctly. There's enough room to do a wheelover so you could fit 8 or so bikes pretty easily if people parked vertically. OTOH I'm not here that often, but I've never seen more than a bike or two. I seem to remember that the Dominicks across from Superdawg has a similar rack installed.

Clybourn: This is a weird one. Technically, there's this directly across from the entrance.

A decent wave, and a stupid worthless rack next to it. But there's also this, just around the corner

But nobody uses it because it's easier to just lock to the sign posts near the store entrances. So there's a decent amount of OK bike parking, but it's not used very much.

Broadway: as mentioned above, two long waves plus the two bike lids (I'm not sure the bike lids are functional).

Lincoln: There's plenty of bike parking at this store. Someone provided a picture in another post.

Damen/Ridge:
This is an interesting rack, I'm not really sure how I feel about it. There's also a 3-wave rack just around the corner from it, so if you really hated it you could use the standard wave rack.

Roscoe/Western: This is really the only hall of shame example for Dominicks, at least on the north side. The Dominicks on McCormick is about like this, but I don't think that one is in Chicago.

Anne Alt said:

Are there other major stores you visit in the city that need better bike parking OR stores that are an example of excellent bike parking?

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Permalink Reply by milesperhour on October 4, 2010 at 4:58pm

the bucktown/wicker park library has a one-piece rack that spells "books." while a creative idea, it only works if you get one of the good letters to lock up to. i wonder if the people who design these racks ever actually try locking up bikes to it.

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Permalink Reply by David on October 4, 2010 at 5:10pm

Is *that* what's going on there? I feel really stupid, I always thought it was some kind of weird non-functional abstract design. It manages to convert decent bike rack space into something really hard to use.

Luckily there's some normal racks in front of the library though.

The new West Town branch has no bike parking at all, just two leftover parking meters. That might be a temporary thing, though, since the branch just opened. It might have one u-rack, I'm not 100% positive, but it's nowhere near enough.

milesperhour said:

the bucktown/wicker park library has a one-piece rack that spells "books." while a creative idea, it only works if you get one of the good letters to lock up to. i wonder if the people who design these racks ever actually try locking up bikes to it.

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