Bike Lights - Why Aren't They Like Car Lights?

I'm going to throw this out there hoping to spark a discussion about bike lights. We all worry about fellow cyclists posing as bike ninjas (dark clothing, no lights). 

So why isn't there a law to add lights automatically powered by the bike (hub lights) to every bike that's built? We have those lights for Divvys, why not add them to all new bikes? 

So if you agree or disagree, all POVs welcome. Just want to hear from you and wondering if this is a good, logical idea or asking too much of bike safety legislation or cost prohibitive or ??

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Permalink Reply by Jim Reho on March 1, 2017 at 9:29am

Whatever gets you through the night, it's all right.  Battery-powered lights work great for me, but I can certainly like the dynamo concept too.  One question:  if your dynamo is in your hub, what happens if you want to change your wheel, or your wheel is damaged?  One would require another expensive hub, the other would require having a wheel hand-built.  I switch wheels around frequently.  For that reason alone, I couldn't afford the dynamo hub concept.  Does anyone use rim dynamos any more?       

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin on March 2, 2017 at 9:46am

As someone who just damaged the rim on a dynamo wheel - I have to rebuild it. I'm saving the hub and the spokes can be reused too, so I'm out the cost of a new rim and new nipples. Labor too if you take it to a shop. I have multiple dynamo wheels, and I do swap them around but I can't actually say I swap wheels much in general (except for in cyclocross, where I don't run a dynamo). I'd say this is a great example of a case in which dynamos aren't really practical.

Rim dynamos still exist, but cause excessive tire wear and far more drag than a hub model at much lower output. 

Permalink Reply by HumanPoweredTransportation on March 2, 2017 at 8:50am

You know how you can go out and buy a car without headlights, or without tail lights? No. I don't either.

If you can't buy a car without head and tail lights you should not be able to buy a bicycle without them (ok, if it's a high end carbon fiber yada yada racing bike...)
For the vast majority of bicycles sold, especially kids bikes, why don't we require manufacturers to install them?

a) mass purchase of lights, by manufacturer, would make them less expensive overall

b) no more leaving the bike store or house and being the 'oops I didn't know I would be out after dark, but I'll ride anyway' guy

c) manufacturers can build the lights into the frame, vs people buying after market that might not fit so well onto parts of the frame, can slide etc. when I ride over a pothole

d) if manufacturer is building them into the bike, many more will have cycle recharging power, vs the current system (just yesterday I was out and my battery died, so I had no headlight to ride in this small town in Upstate NY).

1) building them into the frame can make them theft proof (or much more resistant at least)

2) more efficient and effective potentially as manufacturers will place them in optimal locations.

If one highly populated state can make this happen, then the bike manufacturers would transition out of making light-less bikes entirely.

There would certainly be a buffer built into the law such that in 1 years, 50% of bikes sold by manufacturers must comply, in 4 years 100% (of non carbon fiber racing bikes...) or something similar. An immediate step could be that the manuf. just strap on the same after market lights, and they would improve from there given time to better design the bikes with the lights.

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin on March 2, 2017 at 9:34am

Oh this is just too good.

You know how you can go out and buy a car without headlights, or without tail lights?

Yeah, easy. You go buy a race car. Granted, the analogy doesn't work because race bikes are so hard to procure... oh wait. (fun fact, it is actually incredibly easy to buy a race car. I drove one as my only car for a year)

Bicycles are required to be sold with reflectors, but the state of Illinois does actually require that all bicycles ridden at night have lights. See 625 ILCS 5/11‑1507:

(a) Every bicycle when in use at nighttime shall be equipped with a lamp on the front which shall emit a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet to the front and with a red reflector on the rear of a type approved by the Department which shall be visible from all distances from 100 feet to 600 feet to the rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlamps on a motor vehicle. A lamp emitting a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear may be used in addition to the red reflector.

So, uh, yeah. They're required. People just ignore them anyway. Sorta like bike lanes, right hooks, leaving space to pass, etc.

Building the lights into the bicycle is an interesting idea, but outside of something like a bikeshare bike I really think it's not practical. In order:

a) Mass purchases make lights cheaper, no question. But couldn't this apply to not built-in lights?

b) Having the bike come with removable lights fixes this too.

c) If the light slides, that's the fault of whomever installed it. Sure, some fit better than others but none should slide. But going with your idea, they could sell a removable light with a good quality mount and that would solve the problem as well. It would also eliminate those pesky adapters.

d) Dynamos are great, I love them. But not all wheels can incorporate dynamos reasonably, and then any time I would change the wheel on such a bike I would have to use a dynamo wheel. That would really limit my choices. Changing batteries before they die is a good basic preventative maintenance step that I recommend everyone take on their lights to avoid that dreaded moment when your light dies at night.

1) So can using bolts. The only lights I've ever had stolen were the type with a little rubber strap holding them on.

2) This is a personal preference thing. A light pointing more or less forward and more or less backward is great for visibility, but as soon as we get into seeing rather than being seen it becomes more personal. I like my light focused 30-50ft down the road, most people prefer them closer. Some prefer them further.

As I stated earlier, I think built-in lights do make sense in some circumstances, namely bikeshare bikes and cruiser-style commuters. Maybe some low-end hybrid commuters as well. But there are *thousands* of varieties of bikes out there, and not all of them need lights or would be effectively served by having integrated lights. The best we can really do is require that all bikes ridden on public roads at night have lights - and we do. It's just down to enforcement.

Permalink Reply by HumanPoweredTransportation on March 2, 2017 at 10:11am

You didn't even read what I wrote, just went into some rant about race cars.

Lights are currently required for bike USE, but are not required to be ON THE BIKE at time of sale.

I had said we would get better compliance if the MANUFACTURERS, i.e. not the consumers, were required to install the lights before sale.

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin on March 2, 2017 at 10:34am

It seems, in turn, that you only read the one sentence of my post. OK, fine. Two sentences. But that hardly makes a rant.

So I'll keep this short. Is there a good way to completely take the consumer out of the equation? If I buy a bike with integrated lights, I can forget (or neglect) to turn them on. Do they then have to be automatic?

Supplemenatry section you can ignore if it's convenient to do so:

Many bikes come pre-built, and the component selection is an important deciding factor when choosing which model to buy. Do you buy the crux with 105 or Ultegra? The frame is the same, but maybe you like the feel and performance of the nicer groupset. The more features we integrate into a bike from manufacture, the more choices we open up. What if I really want the new Salsa Timberjack but the light is crap? It's an interesting contributing factor. And something that just popped into my head while writing this - mtb lights are different in design to road lights. They have different projection angles. A road light won't give you the visibility you need on trails at night, but a mtb light will be... unpleasant for oncoming traffic, to say the least. How do you reconcile that? Can you no longer ride your mountain bike on the roads?

Permalink Reply by HumanPoweredTransportation on March 6, 2017 at 3:17pm

I don't think there is a need to make them automatic, so the consumer is the person that needs to be responsible.

The point(s) made are that they would be cheaper and more theft resistant.

If they are installed, they are already on the bike.  

Permalink Reply by Karmen Frlan on March 2, 2017 at 10:15am

Sidebar ... why can't Chicago maintain the lights on the path? Further, it would be great if there were lights placed in the median ... like this --- http://www.gproadwaysolutions.com/sales/manufacturer/pavement-led-m...

There are even companies putting out solar lights ... like https://lanelight.com/

As Chicago sets itself up to be more bike friendly it should also make sure to protect them better on all paths.

Permalink Reply by Christopher Smith on March 3, 2017 at 6:56am

I used to see these lights advertised in the back of my bike magazines all the time and am wondering if anyone has ever used them? http://www.ebicyclelights.com/cheap/compact-size-bicycle-brake-ligh... They are bicycle break lights that work when your caliper or v-break squeezes together thus completing a circuit. I really like the idea of a bike break light.  I know I've been behind someone who has decided to stop all of the sudden without warning!  

As far as the original question, I'm not sure how I feel?  I personally use battery and usb rechargeable lights all year long and am pretty good about replacing the batteries and charging them up.  The cost of the Dynamo hub light system does deter me from going that route.  You have to factor in a wheel build too if you cannot do it yourself, which would run you around $150 with spokes.  In general I don't think people in many parts of the country see bicycles as anything more than a recreational object.  So this might be part of a bigger topic of bicycles being accepted as a more serious form of transportation.  

Permalink Reply by Irvin Steinert on March 3, 2017 at 9:00am

I think you're right, here.

Permalink Reply by Fai Mok on March 6, 2017 at 6:55am

Christopher, I brought 2 sets of Nashbar brand brake light/tail lights from them about 8 years ago and loved it as they are compact and only require 2 N batteries.  The light have a solid and 3 flashing modes.  It can be remove from the bracket also.  Unfortunately due to too many rides getting caught in the rain, the wiring eventually shorted out.  Though the light still work as a tail light as I still use them.  I am trying to see if I can fix the mechanism.  I will take a photo when I am home tonight to show you.

Cateye launched a motion sensing tail light which double as a brake light last fall, the Rapid X2 Kinetic(http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/TL-LD710K/).  I can see other companies developing something similar to compete with Cateye and hoping drive the price down.  I plan to get one before the weather stays warm when I will be riding outside daily.  The light have an accelerometer which sense acceleration or deceleration, triggering the lights to turn on or shine brighter cautioning those who are behind you.

As to the original question to this thread, IMO bicycle manufacturers will only incorporate head light/tail light if it's profitable and there is a high demand by the consumers.  As some of your already mentioned, the average Joe or Jane cannot justify spending $100-$150 on a Dynamo hub if they are a novice, a beginner or a casual rider.  I myself own 2 Cateye USB charge lights since they are portable and puts out a lot of lumens.

Permalink Reply by Christopher Smith on March 6, 2017 at 8:01am

Fai,

I was referring to an actual bike break light.  One that lights up when you use your breaks, see link:

http://www.ebicyclelights.com/cheap/compact-size-bicycle-brake-ligh...

This is different from general head/tail lights, which is what you are referring to I believe.

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