manshoaling

So people. Look. Every single day, at some point in my ride to work or from work or for errands or whatever, at least once, a man pulls up behind me, a woman, who is waiting at a light and just assumes, in the absence of other information (for I have been placidly waiting, perhaps, for a while) that I must be slower than he is,

He therefore thinks that he should aggressively pull in front of me or cut me off, because I, a lady, will only get in his way! Shortly, this gentleman and I both find that he actually isn't a faster or stronger rider than I am, and sometimes we discover this whilst, say, going over the river along Damen! Either way, I then have to pass him, which makes things less safe for both of us. Please, dudes. STOP DOING THIS. IT'S RUDE AND YOU'LL FEEL BAD LATER AND YOUR SELF-ESTEEM IS NOT MY PROBLEM.  

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 5, 2018 at 2:51pm

How could anyone possibly think he is sexist when, as he clearly pointed out, the problem in this situation is the woman...

It's not about one person being right or wrong here dude, it's about thinking about how your language and actions effect others.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 5, 2018 at 2:47pm

Maybe you should think about the language you use with everyone...

Asking if people need any HELP and asking if they need ANYTHING are very different questions and can have very different connotations.

Maybe you don't see one as insulting but you are also not part of a gender who is habitually treated as helpless in certain situations for no valid reason.

You are not just responsible for what you say but also what people hear.  Being thoughtful about your language and appreciating others experience takes very little effort on your part and makes everyone's experience better.

Permalink Reply by Brian S on July 3, 2018 at 9:05am

So you're saying that because I'm a man, I should treat women differently? Isn't that the very definition of sexism?

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on July 3, 2018 at 9:40am

personally, I've been in a pinch and had someone help me when I flatted. I was grateful for the help. I can't speak to the person that responded negatively but I'll say this - it's not everyone and as was mentioned, we don't know what she had going on. I'd let that go. I don't know how that is worth mentioning when that's not 99% of what you experience, it's a small exception.

Maybe consider listening and putting things in context before throwing a word like sexism at women when they have a POV that is different than yours. Maybe consider they have experiences that lend to that response. You aren't a woman. It's just as simple as that. If you can't walk in our shoes, please tread carefully when you respond to an expression of frustration or how one woman feels and try not to look at it as a personal affront/assault/insult to you but rather a response to a lifetime of experiences that got a woman to that place. Up until recently, rape was easily excused as the woman's fault e.g. "she asked for it" "she was drunk" "you don't want to ruin his life for one mistake!" "Are you sure she isn't making it up?"

As if the rapist's life was of more value because frankly, that one act can do so much damage to an ENTIRE woman's life.

Have you lived a life experiencing phrases like these as commonplace and impacting you? We're not saying all men are bad so again, I wouldn't take it personally unless you've been guilty of it but I'm not going to make that judgement because I have no idea. So take a breath, listen to what she's saying, and mind the knee-jerk reactions. As women, we've been told our whole lives sexism didn't really exist, wasn't wrong, etc. And we've been raised to be "good girls" that say please and thank you and I'm sorry FAR TOO OFTEN. Please think about that before you respond.

Permalink Reply by TonyP on July 3, 2018 at 10:02am

So as a man I shouldn't take a womans "knee jerk" reaction personally, but it is entirely acceptable for a woman to take a mans "knee jerk" reaction personally.

You know, an offer of assistance being boiled down to a comparison to rape is way off base, insulting even.

Permalink Reply by Yasmeen on July 3, 2018 at 12:18pm

Frankly, I don't like to carry negative energy around so I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole with this thread. 

I will say this, the example of rape and #metoo is an example of the experience many women have had in their lives. I was giving you context of where women are coming from, NOT making a false equivalent. If you want to twist that into something to be "insulted" by, that is your choice and has nothing to do with me nor with anything I said. 

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 5, 2018 at 3:00pm

Did you even read what she said?

I could be wrong but what I took away in that was that maybe men should stop and think about the prevalence of victim blaming when women are sexually assaulted, as well as all the other ways women are casually demeaned in our society, and what having lived YOUR ENTIRE LIFE in that sort of hostile environment must feel like.

Listen to women's anger and their experiences and try to think how you would feel if you had to live without the immense privilege that comes with being a cisgendered male.

Permalink Reply by Joe Guzzardo on August 16, 2018 at 4:55am

Cisgender. Sounds a little sexist if you ask me. How about a Brogender? 

Back to the original discussion. I'm sure you've seen these. They may actually have some practical value. For me they help provide some added sense of self esteem and virility. I need something to compensate for my small hands.

Permalink Reply by Brian S on July 3, 2018 at 10:06am

My response wasn't a knee jerk reaction. I thought about it prior to posting. There is no way I can do mental gymnastics to make the statement that I should treat women differently from men as anything but sexist.

I am 100% sure that the women here have been the victims of sexism. That doesn't entitle anyone to call for further sexism.

It would appear that you have the knee jerk reaction, Yasmeen. And I'm sorry if the mere mention of the word 'sexism' by a male causes that. But it does not absolve anyone here, of either gender, from having a reasoned and logical discussion of the issues at hand.

Permalink Reply by Brian S on July 3, 2018 at 10:27am

Also, saying "you're a man, so you just can't understand" is a prejudice commonly known as 'sexism'. From your tone elsewhere on this thread and the forum at large, I presume that such behavior is unacceptable on this forum.

Sexism is wrong. It's wrong whether it comes from a male or a female or anyone in between or beyond.

Males may take umbrage and object to it, just as anyone else may.

Permalink Reply by batwood14 on July 3, 2018 at 11:11am

Without trying to say anything incendiary, I’ll say this in response to the hubbub I’ve rekindled by responding earlier:

If I need to consider the sum-total of somebody’s life experience before asking them if they might need a spare tube, then we’re all off course.

Since I shared a shitty story of offering help before, I’ll share the one-and-only time my offer of help was accepted...a solo rider had flatted right around Diversey harbor and I checked to see if he was good, and he said, “Man, do you by any chance have a spare tube?” I had one and I gave it to him...when he saw I only had one vs. multiple tubes he tried to decline my offer, but I said “No, no take it...I believe in bike karma and I could use the good vibes.”

The guy later tracked me down on social media, sent me a note and dropped off 5 spare tubes at my house. True story. 

That was was kind of awesome...has nothing to do with him being a man. Just circumstantial that he was.

Be friendly to your fellow cyclists...always. If they want to be assholes back, that’s their shit to deal with. Man or woman.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on July 3, 2018 at 11:36am

+ 1

"Be friendly to your fellow cyclists...always. If they want to be assholes back, that’s their shit to deal with. Man or woman."

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