Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jerry on July 13, 2010 at 8:43am

OK. I exchanged emails with CPD, and explained the problem with preventing mass-ups. I think they get it. There are places where they will encourage us to move along, not just for the sake of moving along, but rather to keep intersections and streets open for emergency vehicles (e.g., by Northwestern Hospital, the Medical District, and other hospitals.) We should consider that concern with route planning, mass-ups and round-ups -- keep ambulance paths open, and get past them quickly.

Permalink Reply by Barbra Mann on July 13, 2010 at 8:47am

Got it...

Jerry said:

OK. I exchanged emails with CPD, and explained the problem with preventing mass-ups. I think they get it. There are places where they will encourage us to move along, not just for the sake of moving along, but rather to keep intersections and streets open for emergency vehicles (e.g., by Northwestern Hospital, the Medical District, and other hospitals.) We should consider that concern with route planning, mass-ups and round-ups -- keep ambulance paths open, and get past them quickly.

Permalink Reply by Jerry on July 13, 2010 at 3:18pm

I'll stick to the front of the ride, and run interference with the police. If Howard and/or others can give me a heads-up on problems, I'll try to explain them to the police detail they put on the ride.

CPD is a vertical, hierarchical organization, so it doesn't really know what to make of a horizontally distributed egalitarian social organization like CM -- it would very much prefer to deal with someone in charge. But nobody is in charge.

On the other hand, they are used to dealing with lawyers as intermediaries and recognize that, although the lawyer isn't in charge, he's at least a line of communication with the clients. Normally, police don't like it when clients lawyer up. But when they're not sure who the client is, I think they actually appreciate the lawyer. It fulfills their basic human need to have someone they can at least talk to.

Let me know when the police get in the way, and I'll do my best to figure out a polite, but effective, way to get the information to them, and keep the heat off you and the ride.

Permalink Reply by Jerry on July 14, 2010 at 5:18am

As the lawyer, I can't be in charge, but I'll support whoever is. And I'll do whatever is necessary to stay at the front. I can usually wangle my way to the front.

H3N3 said:

When you have 2 or 3 experienced folks "helping" at the front of the ride, there is someone in charge, and we let the police know that. That "no-one wanting to appear to be a leader" thing you referred to yesterday (in reference to the August '07 ride) is not what typically happens at the front of the Chicago mass; we typically have at least a small group of folks willing to put themselves out there. When the police see that we have our own leadership they tend to back off.
I think we took our eye off the ball a bit at yesterday's meeting-- the most critical things to work out IMO are:
-where does one need to be in order to be at the front of the ride at the start?
-who is willing to =commit= to being there, and ready and available to work together with the others, before the riders hit the street?


Jerry said:

I'll stick to the front of the ride, and run interference with the police. If Howard and/or others can give me a heads-up on problems, I'll try to explain them to the police detail they put on the ride.
CPD is a vertical, hierarchical organization, so it doesn't really know what to make of a horizontally distributed egalitarian social organization like CM -- it would very much prefer to deal with someone in charge. But nobody is in charge. On the other hand, they are used to dealing with lawyers as intermediaries and recognize that, although the lawyer isn't in charge, he's at least a line of communication with the clients. Normally, police don't like it when clients lawyer up. But when they're not sure who the client is, I think they actually appreciate the lawyer. It fulfills their basic human need to have someone they can at least talk to.

Let me know when the police get in the way, and I'll do my best to figure out a polite, but effective, way to get the information to them, and keep the heat off you and the ride.

Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on July 14, 2010 at 8:18am

Hey everyone. There was a problem with the notes. My battery died in the middle of taking them and the file was corrupt. I just not go around to re-building it. It's what I get for using OpenOffice. Here are the notes! http://bit.ly/cpWouc

Permalink Reply by Jason W on July 14, 2010 at 8:59am

I think the leaders need to be wait at the corner we are taking off from (like Clark and Washington if we are starting off south on clark).

Let me thrown out an idea. I remember one time last year Steven had a big peace sign on top of a pole on the back of his bike. Let's say he is the map maker and trying to lead one month. It would be good to put that symbol prominently on the map and on the sign on the back of his bike. That way the leader, or leaders match the map. Let's face it, people aren't that bright, and if we can give them obvious visual clues to make the leader more easily recognizable, it may help.

H3N3 said:

-where does one need to be in order to be at the front of the ride at the start?
-who is willing to =commit= to being there, and ready and available to work together with the others, before the riders hit the street?

Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on July 14, 2010 at 9:05am

The most effective tactic we came up with appears to be collecting 3 volunteers to wait at each corner of daily before the ride takes off just waiting. When the rides starts to circle they get in front of the intersection to keep the ride from going in that direction. They may have a sign or something which directs the mass in the direction they should go. Then when the ride is ready to leave whatever intersection that the map has stated will be the departure point is then "let free" and lead accordingly by the ride leaders who have already established themselves in the front. While downtown the leaders should remember to keep the mass slow so it can catch up with itself and and mass often.

Permalink Reply by Jerry on July 15, 2010 at 1:28am

I'm sure I do. I'll have to rely on your guys for that. Speak up, and let me know. I'll bring two radios (all I have.) And feel free to shout information at me during the ride. I come from a large Irish family, so shouting is normal conversation for me. I won't take offense -- I don't when the cops shout at me, so clients are more than welcome, indeed, invited, to shout. I take my orders from my clients.

H3N3 said:

Cool . . . it just seems like you need a better understanding of the problems if you're going to be the conduit, and the best way for you to understand what's happening would be to be at the front at the start (e.g. slightly before the start) to observe.

Jerry said:

As the lawyer, I can't be in charge, but I'll support whoever is. And I'll do whatever is necessary to stay at the front. I can usually wangle my way to the front.

H3N3 said:

When you have 2 or 3 experienced folks "helping" at the front of the ride, there is someone in charge, and we let the police know that. That "no-one wanting to appear to be a leader" thing you referred to yesterday (in reference to the August '07 ride) is not what typically happens at the front of the Chicago mass; we typically have at least a small group of folks willing to put themselves out there. When the police see that we have our own leadership they tend to back off.
I think we took our eye off the ball a bit at yesterday's meeting-- the most critical things to work out IMO are:
-where does one need to be in order to be at the front of the ride at the start?
-who is willing to =commit= to being there, and ready and available to work together with the others, before the riders hit the street?


Jerry said:

I'll stick to the front of the ride, and run interference with the police. If Howard and/or others can give me a heads-up on problems, I'll try to explain them to the police detail they put on the ride.
CPD is a vertical, hierarchical organization, so it doesn't really know what to make of a horizontally distributed egalitarian social organization like CM -- it would very much prefer to deal with someone in charge. But nobody is in charge. On the other hand, they are used to dealing with lawyers as intermediaries and recognize that, although the lawyer isn't in charge, he's at least a line of communication with the clients. Normally, police don't like it when clients lawyer up. But when they're not sure who the client is, I think they actually appreciate the lawyer. It fulfills their basic human need to have someone they can at least talk to.

Let me know when the police get in the way, and I'll do my best to figure out a polite, but effective, way to get the information to them, and keep the heat off you and the ride.

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