Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brian Bird on May 26, 2009 at 1:36pm

I read your post and noticed that you said "new RUSA members". You might have caught RUSA on a time period where not too many newbies from the IL-IN-WI area joined up.

That said, I know from talking to a couple of the guys that put together the randonneur events for the Great Lakes Randonneurs organization that it is getting a very high attendance - if not THE highest number of participants - of randonneur riders on its events this year - and this isn't even a Paris-Brest-Paris qualification year!

Tom B? Stormrider? Your thoughts?

Permalink Reply by Eric Peterson on May 28, 2009 at 2:25am

Of course you don't have to be a RUSA member to ride the brevets, but RUSA data is the only data available to me. Instead of looking at new members, according to the RUSA site Illinois ranks 31st in current members per 1M population (5.95). WA is #1 with 45. I figure it must be the better scenery out there.

Of course since in general there are so few randonneurs a small blip in local interest can have a big impact on these numbers. For example there has been a big spike recently in members from PR. And there are now two active randonneuring groups in MN. Go figure. Delavan is a short drive from the city, and WI is a scenic and generally friendly place for cycling. We have a pretty good setup if you ask me. Maybe there's so much stuff to do in Chicago people can't give up one or two days on the weekend to devote to cycling.

I think JimK and his crew are doing a great job running the brevets. One addition I would like to see for every brevet is a ride report. People are naturally curious, it might help promote the events if you could find out some basic stuff like how many riders, weather, when riders came in, and so on. It could help them to better prepare for the conditions, and to get a feel for how others managed the ride. A pre-ride email would also be useful, with information such as how many riders are signed up, and what to expect on the ride, etcetera.

As for myself I just like the experience of riding my bike all day long and into the night, seeing the countryside on two wheels.

Eric

Brian Bird said:

I read your post and noticed that you said "new RUSA members". You might have caught RUSA on a time period where not too many newbies from the IL-IN-WI area joined up.

That said, I know from talking to a couple of the guys that put together the randonneur events for the Great Lakes Randonneurs organization that it is getting a very high attendance - if not THE highest number of participants - of randonneur riders on its events this year - and this isn't even a Paris-Brest-Paris qualification year!

Tom B? Stormrider? Your thoughts?

Permalink Reply by Michael Amico on June 7, 2009 at 2:29pm

Eric, I don't think it's just Randoneering, it's the whole cycling thing that has a low turn out. The bike clubs put on these rides in the area and can only draw 200 to 1000 riders. These riders are not putting in the miles you have to do when you Rando. Also, I don't think the recreational cyclist has the "mental toughness" it takes to pedal the milage we do.

And yes the GLR put on a great event.

Permalink Reply by Eric Peterson on June 7, 2009 at 3:12pm

Sounds like the 400K was a success! In rando terms of course. Still recovering from a crash 2 weeks ago, I had to take a pass on this one. I also missed the 300K due to a college graduation, but I am planning on being there for the 600K - just made reservations at the Super8.

Out here in Naperville, on most days I have my choice of a variety of recreational rides with different local groups. Some days there may be 5 or 6 choices. Some rides are easier than others where I expect to get dropped.

The thing is that while there may be a couple dozen riders or so on some rides, it seems to me that in general the turnout on most recreational rides is fairly small when compared to say rides in other parts of the country. In Seattle for example last February there were over 60 riders on a SIR/CBC joint training ride. Someone told me that CBC (Cascade Bicycling Club) has 10,000 members, and that sometimes so many riders show up it becomes a logistical problem. Cycling-wise maybe Chicago is a "city of small neighborhoods" - that's the way it seems to me anyway. I'm not complaining, just think it's interesting. Today I went on a ride with a couple of guys who were hoping to work up to being able to complete a century later this summer. That's a different perspective (but I was there myself just a few years ago).

Eric

Michael Amico said:

Eric, I don't think it's just Randoneering, it's the whole cycling thing that has a low turn out. The bike clubs put on these rides in the area and can only draw 200 to 1000 riders. These riders are not putting in the miles you have to do when you Rando. Also, I don't think the recreational cyclist has the "mental toughness" it takes to pedal the milage we do.

And yes the GLR put on a great event.

Permalink Reply by Joe on June 16, 2009 at 6:51am

I think it might just be that nobody knows what these rides are about. But the word is getting out and they're getting more popular. Lots of people I know are like "I wouldn't want to ride 300K" or whatever but when you get out there it's a big adventure and a lot of fun. I think they'll get more popular as people look for challenges that don't involve racing.

Permalink Reply by Nine on June 16, 2009 at 7:38pm

I think ya need to check out my new message board and communicate to other like minded cyclists. The best roads are in Rural Wisconsin by far. This is a board to explore these roads.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/greatlakesrandonneurs/

Kevin

Permalink Reply by David Berry on June 19, 2009 at 5:40pm

I think things are actually all right here. We had 65+ on the 200K, 28 on the 300K. Yes, Seattle has a ton of people, but if you look around, a lot of the RUSA clubs have only 10-15 riders on a lot of their brevets.

Part of it is there is only a small segment that long distance cycling appeals to. I think its a big mental barrier for people to get over thinking about riding more than 100 miles in a day. I also think when people hear that word "unsupported", they freak out a little. People like to at least have the idea of a SAG out there. But anyone who has ever done a long training ride is really prepared for a brevet in a lot of ways. Its just mentally getting over those things for a lot of people I think.

I know in this years series, I've rode with riders from Madison, Milwaukee and Wausau in addition to the Chicago area of course. And I'm in Appleton. So as all of us go back and do our group rides, people will hear about randonneuring and maybe that will generate some interest. Maybe some people will see that we are just normal people, and if we can go out and do these rides, maybe they can do one too. If that gets them to try a 200 K at some point, great. I think once they try one, they will appreciate the camaraderie, the scenery and the adventure that all of us appreciate.

Another strategy may be to hold a couple of additional brevets next year starting in a different area. How about one that starts closer to Chicago so people aren't faced with a hotel or drive up that morning? How about one starting in Verona that might interest the Madison crowd? This will require some of us to step up and help Jim by organizing and running these events. And it would behoove us to plan ahead to have some flyers or posters explaining what randonneuring is at local bike shops a few months before the event. But if we attract new members, ultimately all of us win.

Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on July 1, 2009 at 6:14am

As someone who's interested in randonneuring but really doesn't know how to approach it, I thought I'd lay out some of my issues, as I suspect they're not atypical. First, I don't drive, and the lack of public transportation to Delavan throws up a barrier to me. I could get around that, but even so investing four hours driving time and the expense of a hotel room in something I may end up not liking doesn't necessarily appeal to me. Second, I don't know the roads in rural WI at all. I could hack a 200K and a 300K would give me a nice attainable goal to shoot for, but going for that distance for the first time while dealing with unfamiliar driving styles and what I assume are way more hills than I get in the Chicago area throws up another barrier. Third, I just don't know that much about randonneuring—what the expectations are for a new rider, unwritten rules, how to pace yourself, and that sort of thing.

Personally what would appeal to me would be a shorter ride that started in the city and headed out (maybe into Indiana?). Sort of a mini-brevet with training wheels, just to see what it's about. I suspect that if someone organized such a ride and promoted it to city riders who wouldn't normally think of taking part, it might do pretty well. 200K isn't that much more than a century, after all, and 300K isn't that much more than 200K, so if there's a way to just dip your toe in the pool the idea of swimming becomes more appealing.

Permalink Reply by Eric Peterson on July 1, 2009 at 7:11am

Well there are many things to respond to here.

There are at least two GLR members I know of that don't drive. One option has been to take a late train to Harvard then ride to Delavan. Another is to get yourself to someone's house with a car and drive up together.

As for driving two hours to a ride and back, it is against my principles, but I still do it, sharing a ride when I can find someone willing to do so (it's harder than you might think). In general I ride out my door - I don't do invitationals anymore, nor drive to the start of a ride except for the brevets. I've thought of riding to the brevets (I live in Naperville) but the rides are long enough already, and there are practical matters like carrying all that stuff that you would normally throw in the car.

I could just ride long rides out my door - and in fact will do so, once I create some brevet routes that are called permanents. I plan to incorporate local Amtrak routes into some of these rides that would originate and/or end in/from Naperville. There is no reason a permanent could not originate from Chicago as well should someone take it upon themselves to lay out the routes (which is harder than you might think).

But I think I will continue to drive to brevets in order to support the sport as well as participate in it. Also you cannot get quite the same ride experience riding alone in the flatlands of Illinois versus with other like-minded individuals in the more challenging terrain of Wisconsin (or other states).

As for riding on unfamiliar roads I am helping the RBA to add data to the website that shows the routes for the different ride. These would be viewable in Google Maps, or on websites like Bikely or Bikeroute Toaster. That way you could study the route ahead of time. Of course you could also simply use the cuesheet to create routes yourself, understanding that the route can change up to the time of the ride start.

Finally, the Internet provides some great resources for randonneuring.
There is the RUSA site: RUSA
There is also the Google group randon: Google randon group
Some randonneuring groups also have good websites: SIR and BC Randonneurs are a couple of the better ones. The Seattle page has many links to other sites and blogs where you can read lots of stuff about randonneuring.

There is a cool new website called Kosmix where you can enter a term and it will create a webpage for you: Generated Randonneuring Page

Dr. Doom said:

As someone who's interested in randonneuring but really doesn't know how to approach it, I thought I'd lay out some of my issues, as I suspect they're not atypical. First, I don't drive, and the lack of public transportation to Delavan throws up a barrier to me. I could get around that, but even so investing four hours driving time and the expense of a hotel room in something I may end up not liking doesn't necessarily appeal to me. Second, I don't know the roads in rural WI at all. I could hack a 200K and a 300K would give me a nice attainable goal to shoot for, but going for that distance for the first time while dealing with unfamiliar driving styles and what I assume are way more hills than I get in the Chicago area throws up another barrier. Third, I just don't know that much about randonneuring—what the expectations are for a new rider, unwritten rules, how to pace yourself, and that sort of thing.
Personally what would appeal to me would be a shorter ride that started in the city and headed out (maybe into Indiana?). Sort of a mini-brevet with training wheels, just to see what it's about. I suspect that if someone organized such a ride and promoted it to city riders who wouldn't normally think of taking part, it might do pretty well. 200K isn't that much more than a century, after all, and 300K isn't that much more than 200K, so if there's a way to just dip your toe in the pool the idea of swimming becomes more appealing.

Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on July 1, 2009 at 10:54am

Thanks for the information, which is very helpful. (I didn't know the Metra got that close to Delavan! Certainly makes the trip seem less inconvenient.) Those data tools sound terrific, and certainly if I could just plug a route into a map program that would let me check it over for challenging terrain that would make things seem less intimidating. Since the rides themselves are pretty daunting, things like this that make them more accessible to inexperienced riders seem to me like they could be a big help in raising interest.

Permalink Reply by Joe on July 1, 2009 at 2:32pm

Let me try to address some of these concerns too....

I can understand feeling a little odd about driving 4 hours for a bicycling event. But....it's a lot better than driving 4 hours for a 25 mile road race or 20K time trial or even 5K or 10K run. This way you're getting at least 125 miles in for the drive so that's pretty good, right?

The hotel room thing...I'll tell you, I didn't get a room for any of the rides this year. The 200 and 300 started at 7am and I could drive over pretty easily and home afterwards. This might not work for you but maybe if you could hook up with another rider or two then it might. The 400 and 600 were harder because they start earlier but the organizers had a room available for the riders. For the 600 my group of 3 were all able to take a shower and get 2 hrs sleep in the provided room and it worked out just great! A private room would be nice but the "riders room" worked out pretty well this year.

The hills, well, the 200K was not very hilly but the 300, 400, and 600 have some real nut busters. I think the key is to avoid going into the "red zone". I'm running a 34X34 low gear and it's fantastic, I used it a lot, and I'm not a slow rider, I can bust out a 40K in under 57 minutes on my time trial rig. I walked several hills in the 300 when running s 34X27 and didn't feel too bad about it-I got to use different muscles!

One thing that is funny is that these rides seem to include some freakishly difficult weather conditions. It's rain, wind, heat, cold, it's always something. I've done 6 of these rides (finished 5) and have become a much stronger rider because of them.

They're not easy to drop out of, there's no sag wagon to pick you up. Usually it's going to be much more difficult to stop vs. just keep riding that you continue and ultimately finish. Pacing....for me...is one of the biggest difficulties for me. I usually try to ride with the lead group for far too long then suffer like a dog for the rest of the ride. But I'm learning :) Also, you've gotta eat to keep the energy levels up, you've gotta be able to live out of convenience stores for awhile.

Although you don't have to help other riders, I've found people on these rides extremely helpful. It's not a race and we're all in it together so it naturally bonds people. On the 200 this year I had three flats and only one tube so my new friends were the only reason I was able to finish. Riding thru tough conditions over long periods creates a great sense of teamwork.

The increasing length of the rides is key to riding the whole series if you're into doing it. Randonees have been around for a long time (like 100 years or something) and these distances probably aren't arbitrary. I struggled with the 200 and 300, suffered like a dog on the 400, and felt pretty darn good for the 600 so if you can just get the first one done you're on your way to the next one.

Being prepared is important! In the 200 it started off warmish but quickly got cold and rainy, at times severely rainy. I was bundled up in leg warmers, arm warmers, hat, rain coat, full fingered gloves and was glad I had packed for possible severe weather. I should have taken more tubes....but I learned and now do.

I'd encourage you to give the 200K in August a try. You can get a taste for the que sheets, road markings, checkpoints, and the all-important brevet card. Without doing something totally crazy you can check it out. When you finish you can get your swanky 200K medal for 10$. If you like it then the series will be here in 2010 before you know it.

It's a French thing so there are a lot of rules. Take some time to read thru them and follow them, most make a lot of sense. The brevet cards....well they're really strict with them as they should be.

Good luck Dr. Doom! Hope to see you in August!

Joe


Dr. Doom said:

As someone who's interested in randonneuring but really doesn't know how to approach it, I thought I'd lay out some of my issues, as I suspect they're not atypical. First, I don't drive, and the lack of public transportation to Delavan throws up a barrier to me. I could get around that, but even so investing four hours driving time and the expense of a hotel room in something I may end up not liking doesn't necessarily appeal to me. Second, I don't know the roads in rural WI at all. I could hack a 200K and a 300K would give me a nice attainable goal to shoot for, but going for that distance for the first time while dealing with unfamiliar driving styles and what I assume are way more hills than I get in the Chicago area throws up another barrier. Third, I just don't know that much about randonneuring—what the expectations are for a new rider, unwritten rules, how to pace yourself, and that sort of thing.

Personally what would appeal to me would be a shorter ride that started in the city and headed out (maybe into Indiana?). Sort of a mini-brevet with training wheels, just to see what it's about. I suspect that if someone organized such a ride and promoted it to city riders who wouldn't normally think of taking part, it might do pretty well. 200K isn't that much more than a century, after all, and 300K isn't that much more than 200K, so if there's a way to just dip your toe in the pool the idea of swimming becomes more appealing.

Permalink Reply by Eric Peterson on July 2, 2009 at 9:29am

Joe has lots of good input.

The organizers and the Super8 staff made it easy to use these rooms which is a great help. Before this year I think it was kind of inside information.

You definitely need the right gearing for the steep hills, and there are a few of these. A strong headwind out in the open can almost drive you to your lowest gears as well.

These rides don't get cancelled even with bad weather. You either ride through it, perhaps after waiting out a storm, or DNF (in which case you can't count on a ride back to the start, but GLR does help more with that than others I've seen). You need to check the forecast and bring the right clothing, as well as whatever you might need to effect minor repairs in the field. You should use equipment that is somewhat fault-tolerant. For me that means (for example) that low spoke count wheels are out, bar-end shifters are in (they have a friction mode in case the indexing goes wacky). You must be able to fix things that might fail (tube, tire, chain, cable) or come loose. Your equipment should be checked that it's in good working order before the ride.

Finding the right pace is pretty interesting. For me the goal is to find the exertion rate that I can sustain for the duration of the ride. Too slow and your time budget (sleep bank) suffers, too fast and you burn up your reserves and find it difficult to refuel because you don't feel like eating. Riding at your own pace must be balanced with the advantages of riding with others who might be going a little slower or faster than you like. If you are in your aerobic range you must find appealing food and consume enough calories to keep your fuel tank topped off. On the last ride at one stop I had a Frappacino (370 calories) and a creme-filled donut (must have been at least another 350 calories). Tasty!

As for the distances, I remember my first year seeing a picture of riders after the 600K - they looked so tough, I thought gee I'll never be able to complete a ride like that. There's physical conditioning and mental toughness - both are needed - and a strong desire to do this type of riding. Some train just to finish the brevets, for others the brevets are training for other even tougher rides (like RAAM or Ultracycling events)...wheels within wheels.

Finally, as to the August 8th 200K, by all means give it a go. If it's the same route as previous years it starts in Hampshire. Unfortunately it is on a weekend that Metra does not allow bikes on the train - see this link for the Metra rules concerning bicycles on trains.

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