Why cant Cyclist's follow the rules of the road?

I wonder why cars and cyclist but heads all the time on this topic? Each groups feels a sense of entitlement to the road. Why cant we share the road. The laws are setup to share the road, the car drivers don't agree and the cyclists are riding two abreast, each trying to claim there part of the pavement. The unfortunate part the cyclist will loose every single time.

 

Each needs to allow the other on the road, and make it safe for both. Bikers also need to stop for stop signs and lights. Cars need to look out for bikers on the road.

 

Even in motorcycle groups we have the similar things happening. One groups feeling thier sense of entitlement, ruining it for the rest of us.

 

We need to make our roads safer for our kids to ride on. What happen to curtosey?

Does one bad apple spoil the whole bunch?

 

Vehicle drivers need to stop being so aggressive in traffic!

 

Rene

Our Gang Bicycle Club

NE Illinois

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on May 18, 2011 at 2:20am
Riding smarter and safer is not always riding in accordance with the rules.  I feel safer crossing an intersection when there is no traffic in it against a red than I do when the light turns green and the cars rush for it.  I also feel safer going around a car waiting at a light to turn right on the left instead of the right but both of these are against the law.

Rene Lawell said:


The point I am making, is not do what thars do, do what is safe for you.

Yes I agree that cars break lots of rules, I see the number of bikes and motorcyclists getting hit and killed by cars, and the cars get away with it ro get a slap on the wrist. The point is you are not bigger than the bear, so you have to be smarter. RIDE SMARTER, RIDE SAFER! BE AWARE!

 

Rene'


Adam "Cezar" Jenkins said:

First.

 

http://washcycle.typepad.com/home/2008/07/the-myth-of-the.html

 

Second. Stop and watch cars, they break just as many rules of the road. These breakages are just accepted because that's how it's always been. 

 

What bothers me is the minority of cyclist that break the big ones. Busy street red lights being one.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on May 18, 2011 at 2:22am
How is riding safer predicated on following the laws?  I am not a vehicular cyclist because I feel I am safer by my own rules.  I am not 'fighting' anything; I am riding my bike in a manner that will keep me as safe from harm as possible regardless of the law.

Rene Lawell said:

@ notoriousDUG:

 

I agree with you, but at the same time, in a fight with bully are you better off not fighting or getting yoruself killed. In this case I will take the passive approach, keep myself safe. You can always report a car get there liscence and file a poice report. Maybe if there were more popo on the road, cars would ne get away with such shit!

 

The one thing that separates cyclist from car drivers, is the bicyclest does not need a licsence to operate the vehicle. And there are many bicycle operator out there riding against traffic, cutting betwwen cars, ridng on sidewalks. We are held just as accountable if we hit a pedestrain. as a car is if they hit us.

 

I am just sayin' We need to ride smarter.

notoriousDUG said:

Two important points:

 

Motorists break tons of rules many of them, and a frightful number of police, do not even know exist.  I will start to follow all the rules when I see cars not running reds, doing rolling stops, entering intersections they cannot clear and many of the other things they do illegal every single day.  I am also going to continue to ride in a common sense manner until I see the police start to ticket and enforce important truck safety laws regarding vehicle condition, properly rated tires, functioning lights, over gross weight and unsecured loads to keep horribly unsafe and over loaded scrap trucks off the street.  I am not going to start following the letter of the law until everyone else does; maybe if people want me to stop rolling stop signs by shadowing the car who has the right of way thus not impeding traffic or risking my safety (unless somebody wants to ram the car I'm next to in order to hit me) when people stop passing me with 2" to spare.

 

There is also the issue of bikes being a completely different animal than cars.  Riding a bike and driving a car are completely different things and the safest and most efficient manner of navigating city traffic for one vs. the other is not the same.  If we want people to be able to share the road and be safe we need to have separate laws that govern how bicycles are ridden on the street.  I am not following laws on my 40 pound bike powered by me and never going about 13MPH that are made for 4000 pound cars that are going 45 MPH; how does it make sense?

Permalink Reply by dan brown on May 18, 2011 at 2:49am

well said doug. these are clearly cases of situation ethics. IMO - If I followed every traffic law (rule) as a cyclist; I know I would be in more danger. One problem that I see it this : not all cyclists have the same ability and skill levels. i.e. If I see a car (not bragging here - just stating facts from experience) heading into my path (regardless if the car's driver or I is following the 'rules') I know I can always out-maneuver the car (swerve; sprint or do a quick turn); even if that involves me having to salmon; blow a light or stop sign, etc. but I am merely doing it to avoid a collision. not all cyclists can do this. that is just a fact of life.

 

just my $.02

 

DB

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 18, 2011 at 2:52am

+1 Doug.  The rules are an ass much of the time.


I also feel it is much safer getting through the intersection before the green when the cars act like it is the start of the Indy500 or a drag race -each one swerving and trying to pass each other for pole position or get over before the parking lane starts again.    That's a killing zone if you ask me.   I avoid it if at all possible and if that means going through on the red when it is safe for me to do so then frak the law...

Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on May 18, 2011 at 4:38am

I've mentioned this before that I see people getting almost road rage mad at me on a bike because they just spent 15 minutes going from The Loop, River North, Lincoln park, Milwaukee ave... and then 15 bikes weave in and out sail by a 25 row of cars waiting at a light and they have to wait 3 more light changes to get through.

 

Sorry but if I can get someplace faster than you without breaking (too many) laws I will.

Permalink Reply by Davo on May 18, 2011 at 5:28am
That sounds more like their problem than ours.

Mike Zumwalt said:

I've mentioned this before that I see people getting almost road rage mad at me on a bike because they just spent 15 minutes going from The Loop, River North, Lincoln park, Milwaukee ave... and then 15 bikes weave in and out sail by a 25 row of cars waiting at a light and they have to wait 3 more light changes to get through.

 

Sorry but if I can get someplace faster than you without breaking (too many) laws I will.

Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on May 18, 2011 at 6:05am

The rules of the road as they currently stand are irrational and cannot be applied to cyclists. This is why there are so many violations in the "rules of the road." Until the law accurately accounts for variant methods of travel then there will be consistent law violations by those who are unfairly restricted by the law. More over until the law is adjusted to fit the needs of cyclists there will be a greater number of law breakers. This is simple legal theory: The less applicable a law is to the normative behavior of a society the larger the tolerance for violations.

 

What I mean by all this is that if we had an Idaho Stop of some sort in the books today we would see fewer hot rods burning through an intersection and forcing cars to slam their brakes.

Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on May 18, 2011 at 6:24am

It is until they get some free space like on my route sometimes, past Western ave. they blow by you honk for me to move or cut you off because they are trying to get someplace.

Another strange thing is the passenger side being in the bike lane, can't say if they do it intentionally but many times I have to go ride the double yellow because of no room in the bike lane. Milwaukee,Damen, the one lane part of North ave...

Davo said:

That sounds more like their problem than ours.

Mike Zumwalt said:

I've mentioned this before that I see people getting almost road rage mad at me on a bike because they just spent 15 minutes going from The Loop, River North, Lincoln park, Milwaukee ave... and then 15 bikes weave in and out sail by a 25 row of cars waiting at a light and they have to wait 3 more light changes to get through.

 

Sorry but if I can get someplace faster than you without breaking (too many) laws I will.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 18, 2011 at 11:31am

I agree with this almost entirely.


But the converse is when a bike blows through a stop light or sign in such a way as to cut off a half dozen cars and voilate their right of way, thus causing them to miss a green light that was rightfully theirs to travel through then much of the "rage" is justifiable.

 

I try to be an "ethical law-breaker" -I never cut anyone off or violate another road-user's right of way.  I feel that I am in the wrong if I cuase another road user to brake or take evasive action due to an action I make (illegal or even legal) and I consider such an action to be an error in driving and uncivil.

 

It doesn't matter what the stupid laws say, It's all about being civil to other road users and not acting like an ass out there and making life harder on other people.  We can all share the road, not make the world worse for each other, and get to where we are going alive and breathing.

 

In theory the "laws" are supposed to help us all do this.  In reality I have to agree with Spencer said above.  The laws and rules are irrational.  Of course they are, they are made by irrational people who's only purpose in doing anything is to get funds and to get re-elected -not further anything resembling the public good.

Mike Zumwalt said:

I've mentioned this before that I see people getting almost road rage mad at me on a bike because they just spent 15 minutes going from The Loop, River North, Lincoln park, Milwaukee ave... and then 15 bikes weave in and out sail by a 25 row of cars waiting at a light and they have to wait 3 more light changes to get through.

 

Sorry but if I can get someplace faster than you without breaking (too many) laws I will.

Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on May 18, 2011 at 1:12pm

Yeah I don't do that as I'm more worried about getting hit since I frequent those lovely six corner intersects.

The problem seems to be people who are sick of passing,getting passed and passing the same group of bikes thinking if they accelerate and cut you off they will somehow be able to get somewhere before you or scare you into leaving the road?

James Baum said:

I agree with this almost entirely.


But the converse is when a bike blows through a stop light or sign in such a way as to cut off a half dozen cars and voilate their right of way, thus causing them to miss a green light that was rightfully theirs to travel through then much of the "rage" is justifiable.

 

I try to be an "ethical law-breaker" -I never cut anyone off or violate another road-user's right of way.  I feel that I am in the wrong if I cuase another road user to brake or take evasive action due to an action I make (illegal or even legal) and I consider such an action to be an error in driving and uncivil.

 

It doesn't matter what the stupid laws say, It's all about being civil to other road users and not acting like an ass out there and making life harder on other people.  We can all share the road, not make the world worse for each other, and get to where we are going alive and breathing.

 

In theory the "laws" are supposed to help us all do this.  In reality I have to agree with Spencer said above.  The laws and rules are irrational.  Of course they are, they are made by irrational people who's only purpose in doing anything is to get funds and to get re-elected -not further anything resembling the public good.

Mike Zumwalt said:

I've mentioned this before that I see people getting almost road rage mad at me on a bike because they just spent 15 minutes going from The Loop, River North, Lincoln park, Milwaukee ave... and then 15 bikes weave in and out sail by a 25 row of cars waiting at a light and they have to wait 3 more light changes to get through.

 

Sorry but if I can get someplace faster than you without breaking (too many) laws I will.

Permalink Reply by S on May 18, 2011 at 5:15pm

Yes. I agree that the rules of the road are heavily geared to the needs of cars and don't really do much to handle bikes or more importantly creating safe,sane rules to allow bikes, cars, and pedestrians to interact. I'm not sure anyone really knows the best rules for that however.  It'll probably take some experimentation before it gets figured out.

 


Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:

The rules of the road as they currently stand are irrational and cannot be applied to cyclists. This is why there are so many violations in the "rules of the road." Until the law accurately accounts for variant methods of travel then there will be consistent law violations by those who are unfairly restricted by the law. More over until the law is adjusted to fit the needs of cyclists there will be a greater number of law breakers. This is simple legal theory: The less applicable a law is to the normative behavior of a society the larger the tolerance for violations.

 

What I mean by all this is that if we had an Idaho Stop of some sort in the books today we would see fewer hot rods burning through an intersection and forcing cars to slam their brakes.

Permalink Reply by M K on May 19, 2011 at 4:42am

I can't help but TOTALLY agree. I was almost run over by a car who decided to go before his light even remotely turned green while I was trying to make a left turn in front of him while my light was still green. WTF??? Also, almost 90% of cars that I have observed NEVER stop completely at a stop sign. They kind of roll right through. So, that's just what I expect a car will do, and that it what I'll do too unless I see that a car has the right of way before I do. And then I stop.

 

You have to be smart and be aware of your surroundings. Ride in a way that will protect your life, even if it means that you bend the rules a little bit :). But most of the time the rules are definitely there to protect you, so I tend to pay attention to them.


Adam "Cezar" Jenkins said:


Second. Stop and watch cars, they break just as many rules of the road. These breakages are just accepted because that's how it's always been. 

 

What bothers me is the minority of cyclist that break the big ones. Busy street red lights being one.

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