Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joel on July 5, 2011 at 9:02am

What does it take? Money Money Money!

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on July 5, 2011 at 9:13am

Check into Chicago Velo Campus. They're doing it.

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Permalink Reply by Barry Niel Stuart on July 5, 2011 at 9:26am

There's also a Ray's MTB Park on the Northwest Side of Milwaukee.  We also are in the process of developing mountain bike trails in Riverside Park on the East Side and have one in Harley Woods on the West Side.  There's also the Alpha Trail near Crystal Ridge Ski Area in Franklin.

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Permalink Reply by Brett Ratner on July 5, 2011 at 9:50am

Thanks for the fast responses!

 

Kelvin: I had heard about the Velo Campus...and I have been up to the Northbrook velodrome on a couple of occasions. A few minutes ago, I visited the Chicago Velo site. I know those things aren't cheap to build...but $45M to build is a jaw dropper. I'm really impressed people were able to put those kinds of funds together!

 

Barry: Thanks for the heads up. I don't believe I've seen those trails posted on the CAMBR site (I'll check again though). As for Ray's, I was aware of their new location and plan to visit soon...but what I'm talking about is something that people in Chicago can reach without getting in their car and driving 100 miles.

 

Joel: Sure it takes money...and land and materials and know how. I'm generally considered to be a moron but that much I can figure out on my own. The question is are people interested, and if so, how do we make it happen?

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on July 5, 2011 at 9:56am

From the CVC website under Amenities:

Outdoor and Indoor Mountain Bike tracks (MTB)
Outdoor Cyclocross Track

 

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Permalink Reply by Joel on July 5, 2011 at 10:19am

I know you realize it takes money, but you were also amazed at $45 million.  Building a large facility anywhere is expensive.  Building it in the city of Chicago is going to be ridiculously expensive.  Land is really expensive even before you think about putting something on it an insuring it.  There aren't a lot of multi-acre empty spots in the city, and those that exist are going to run a couple million easily.  And remember, the more accessible the space the more it costs.  

 

If you are serious about the project, I would suggest you compile data on all of the existing urban mountain bike tracks as a start.  How big are they?  How much did they cost to build?  Cost to maintain?  How many people are using them?  Where did the money come from?  How did those projects get organized?

 

If it is a project you are interested in, you are going to have to do a lot of the initial legwork before people agree to help.  If you can say, "Hey, I have information on how these five other groups did it, so lets start making phone calls and talking to people" you will have better luck.

Brett Ratner said:

Thanks for the fast responses!

 

Kelvin: I had heard about the Velo Campus...and I have been up to the Northbrook velodrome on a couple of occasions. A few minutes ago, I visited the Chicago Velo site. I know those things aren't cheap to build...but $45M to build is a jaw dropper. I'm really impressed people were able to put those kinds of funds together!

 

Barry: Thanks for the heads up. I don't believe I've seen those trails posted on the CAMBR site (I'll check again though). As for Ray's, I was aware of their new location and plan to visit soon...but what I'm talking about is something that people in Chicago can reach without getting in their car and driving 100 miles.

 

Joel: Sure it takes money...and land and materials and know how. I'm generally considered to be a moron but that much I can figure out on my own. The question is are people interested, and if so, how do we make it happen?

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Permalink Reply by Brett Ratner on July 5, 2011 at 10:38am

Kelvin: Thanks for pointing out that page...I missed the amenities list. I will for certain be frequenting this place when it it opens!!!

 

Barry: I did some brief poking around online for those newer trails you mentioned...can you provide some specifics on their locations?

 

Joel: I was merely dreaming and gauging interest at this point. Please spare me the lecture on how to put a business plan together. And also, working with the park district in hopes to designate some vacant land where a group of volunteers build some obstacles with 2x4s and rocks donated by Home Depot is a little less ambitious than an arena-sized facility complete with a pro-level velodrome, a fitness center and a wind tunnel. Again, I'm a moron, but I'm fairly certain "The Garden" was put together on a small (if not nonexistent) budget.

 

Admittedly I was high on adrenaline from my awesome biking experience over the holiday weekend...so my apologies for attempting to share my enthusiasm with my fellow bikers. I'll refrain from doing so moving forward.

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Permalink Reply by Joel on July 5, 2011 at 11:08am

Sorry to lecture you on business plans, but it helps to have an idea of what you are getting into.  If you leave it entirely open ended you are going to get interest.  A mountain bike course sounds like a lot of fun.  But if you say, "a 300 meter course on an empty lot in Englewood" you might get a very different response.  You can't gauge interest without at least a few concrete ideas.  

 

Given that "The Garden" exists in a public park, the Parks District clearly has some interest in such facilities.  Also remember that the city is broker than broke, and a half mile course needs several acres of space.  Finding and maintaining that space, even with volunteers and donated goods, isn't free.  

 

I would probably start by contacting the people behind The Garden (Chicago Area Mountain Bikers) to see how they have gone about it since they have done a number of projects.

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Permalink Reply by Liz on July 6, 2011 at 3:29am

I've worked in the quad cities and they have Sylvan Island, which in an island on the river between IL & IA right near downtown Moline.  It has about 4 miles of twisted, crossed over trails, using the old foundations and rail tracks as part of the trail features.  The best part of it is that the soil base is granular sand and gravel, so it dries out very quickly in the spring and after storm (unlike Palos which can stay too wet to ride for half the summer). 

 

It would be cool if we could find a former industrial site with favorable soil conditions and build on that. 

 

The biggest hinderance is simply the amount of volunteer time and work required to put a trail together. 

CAMBr is probably the best resource of people interested in building more trails.  I would suggest going to some of their events and hanging out with some of the members to get an idea of what has and has not been tried. 

 

There are also work days on "The Garden", showing up and helping out on trail building is a great way to help build up the existing trails and get an idea of what it would take to get a trail going.

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Permalink Reply by The Bonebell on July 8, 2011 at 4:09am

Hello - nice to see this kind of thread get started.  I represent 'The Bonebell' an off-road cycling advocacy site for Chicago.

 

We were called alongside with CAMBr (www.cambr.org) to review the Chicago Velo Campus plans for off-road construction of trails and a track for CX and MTB needs.  this was last November.  The property was not ready for this type of construction as there was much to do to get an environmental evaluation and cleanup (old iron mill site) before hands got dirty into making something happen.  The CVC has moved forward legitimately with the beginnings of a multi-part wooden track for track bicycle racing later this month.  The dirt aspect is still a good deal away and may not happen this year but that is for the CVC to determine and hopefully inform us and CAMBr to help promote the effort.  As others have noted, it is a multi-million dollar project over the course of many years - funds have not been acquired, and the land is currently borrowed on the good graces of the developer so it's still in its infancy and nothing is rock solid about it's future.  It's a good start.

 

Joel and others have said it with one word - money.  Anything can be had with the money in Chicago.  There are lots of vacant lots and buildings - but then you have the Chicago machine to deal with.  Permits, Union construction, and more permits.  It's a very difficult contention to have with the City let alone with the local officials who have to understand the benefit of why they would support it.  Bike parks are a high liability item that few will sign-off on.  But with the right ambition, good politicking, and a sound business strategy - you can achieve it.

 

Get involved with CAMBr - they need more ambitious hard working folks like you to get on their side and grow the gospel of dirt riding.  The Garden is the perfect example of the above as they worked closely with the community, the police department, and the ward to get something officially created with full support.

 

Good Luck and let us know if you need more information - we're really wired into the dirt thing.

 

Regards,

The Bonebell

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Permalink Reply by The Bonebell on July 8, 2011 at 4:14am

CAMBr is well positioned politically with Cook County and the Chicago Park District lately - which means greater cooperation to make great ideas happen.  Their funding needs to increase to help get more projects off the ground.  We encourage everyone to become a CAMBr member to help that process along.  Thousands upon thousands of dollars have gone into the trail systems that CAMBr has provided Chicago, including the Garden - few dollars were ever given by the City of Chicago or Cook County - just access rights.  That's a political game that CAMBr has learned to play with.

 

Get behind a larger organization for achieving some of the greater goals - it can be done over time for sure.  I was involved with a conversation between Cook County Forest Preserve Director and CAMBr President recently and there were great ideas and initiatives being discussed - those are great leads to be with.

 

Joel said:

Sorry to lecture you on business plans, but it helps to have an idea of what you are getting into.  If you leave it entirely open ended you are going to get interest.  A mountain bike course sounds like a lot of fun.  But if you say, "a 300 meter course on an empty lot in Englewood" you might get a very different response.  You can't gauge interest without at least a few concrete ideas.  

 

Given that "The Garden" exists in a public park, the Parks District clearly has some interest in such facilities.  Also remember that the city is broker than broke, and a half mile course needs several acres of space.  Finding and maintaining that space, even with volunteers and donated goods, isn't free.  

 

I would probably start by contacting the people behind The Garden (Chicago Area Mountain Bikers) to see how they have gone about it since they have done a number of projects.

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Permalink Reply by A. Badger on July 8, 2011 at 6:39am

I would love to see your vision of an all encompassing Bike Park (would really love the BMX/Dirt Jumping, MTB aspects)  inside the city limits.  Itll be like when I was a kid and we'd take our bikes up to the top of Ave T where it rose up over the traintracks and then rode down the 60ft embankment most often into a sage bush.  Except I wouldn't get grounded now.

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