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Permalink Reply by Paul Lazzaro on March 1, 2017 at 9:50am

I think he's asking about tubeless, not tubular...

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Permalink Reply by Paul Lazzaro on March 1, 2017 at 9:50am

You may want to review this thread: http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/tubeless-on-my-touring-bike

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Permalink Reply by SuperPletch on March 1, 2017 at 10:07am

thanks, some good information in that post, though it is 3 years old.  tire mfg have improved tubeless technology quite a bit.  I've ordered some schwalbe marathon supremes to give a try.  The beauty of tubeless is lower rolling resistance at lower pressures with significantly less flats.  and if you have a flat on the road you simply install tube to get you home, same as you would with a clincher tubed tire.  what am i missing?

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Permalink Reply by Paul Lazzaro on March 1, 2017 at 2:07pm

You're probably missing nothing.  On a long tour, flats are likely inevitable, so one might just as well start off with a tube from the beginning.  But for rides of a couple of days, tubeless might be a nice way to go.

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Permalink Reply by djm on March 2, 2017 at 4:33am

Unless their design has changed recently, Marathon Supremes are truck tires.  Running them tubeless may save an occasional puncture but they are not a good choice for comfort or low rolling resistance.  You also want to test how difficult your tire / rim combination is to mount in case of a sealant failure.  Some combinations need an air compressor or booster to seat the bead.

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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bloyd-Peshkin on March 2, 2017 at 4:07am

I've been involved recently in a very interesting discussion of tubeless vs tubes for self-supported ultra racing, which is basically touring on crack. Here's some of the takeaways through my lens:

Tire Choice: If you're going to go tubeless for touring, it's critical that you have a high-quality tire. I hear great things about Schwalbe's G-One tire for touring, and it comes in widths up to 38c. The Pro-One also gets high marks, but only comes up to 28c and has a slick tread. That being said, if you do destroy one of those (gash the sidewall, etc) replacements can be hard to find, so it's worth being prepared to swap for whatever tire you can find and chuck a tube in it.

Sealant pros and cons: Sealant is good for filling small punctures at low pressures and very small punctures at high pressures. Big cuts are still a no-go, so carry a tube and a boot just in case. Also, it makes a huge mess if you have to open it up.

Ease of maintenance: Although a tubeless setup is very low-maintenance when all goes well, it's worth noting that the bead is very tough to seat and break when your hands are tired from riding all day.

This sounds like a big list of negatives, but really it's just a small list of caveats to the big positive of road tubeless: lower pressures with no pinch flats and good protection from small thorns and the like. If you're comfortable with it already, I think it would be great for touring (a trip probably isn't the best time to try anything for the first time). Carry a tube and a boot just in case, though.

Final caveat: I personally don't use road tubeless because I'm just not comfortable with it. I do think it makes sense, and the last two years the Trans Am Bike Race has been won on tubeless (though with several failures along the way). Ultimately whatever you're most comfortable with is what you should use when touring, because the whole point of touring is not to worry. Just have fun, and take lots of pictures. :)

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Permalink Reply by J2O on March 2, 2017 at 8:30am

Tubeless has come a long way and every year produces better results.  I currently ride tubeless on everything except CX (tubulars are still king there).  If you tried tubeless a few years ago and quit due to a blow-out or excessive burping, give it another go.  Well, maybe.

Most modern clincher rims are tubeless-ready.  That means the bead height is shorter (less burping), the rim is a bit wider (again with the burping), and the spoke holes are either covered or can be covered with tubeless tape.  Old narrow rims with tall shoulders shouldn't be converted unless you're really adventurous.

Despite whatever Stan's says, do not use standard clinchers or open tubulars with a tubeless setup.  It can be done, but you're just asking for misery.  There are lots of really nice tubeless tires out there now that will meet your needs nicely.

The wider the tire, the better the tubeless experience.  Not going to go into the physics of the issue, but wide tires on wide rims form a better seal than tires on narrow rims.  The higher volume of wide tires also plays into reliability.

Match your sealant with your use.  In my experience, Stan's is fine for fat bike and MTBs.  If you go over 30psi, OrangeSeal is the way to go.  You can make your own, but you're on your own with that.

I have gotten flats with tubeless tires.  They're rare, but they happen.  The most recent was a 3/8" slice in my commuter tire.  If I had a hand pump and a lot of time, it would have healed itself.  Instead, I was in a rush so I removed the valve, stuck a tube in, and rode home.  It's kinda messy, but not too bad if you don't try to remove the sealant before installing the new tube.

On the other hand, I was an early-adopter and reveled that in thorny sections of gravel races, I was one of the few not on the side of the road.  Even now, I regularly pull wires (it's Chicago) and glass out of my tires.  The hassle of setting them up is completely overshadowed by the fact that I'm rarely trying to change a tire when it's cold, dark, and crappy out (a monthly occurrence last Winter).

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Permalink Reply by John Dow on March 6, 2017 at 4:52pm

taking notes on this one. been thinking of trying out the tubeless tires

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Permalink Reply by SuperPletch on March 7, 2017 at 2:30am

i ordered and installed Schwalbe Marathon Supreme HS 469 700x35c tubeless tires.  They replaced a Specialized Sawtooth 42c on/off road tire which I had converted previously to tubeless quite easily with a roll of Stans rim tape and sealant.  I wanted something more road oriented for a bike tour coming in May.  The installation was simple with Stans sealant and a floor pump and only took 30 minutes.  Tires sealed right away with no mess or fuss.  I am extremely happy with the performance of the new tires.  They roll faster and feel lighter so the bike accelerates and climbs faster, also making bike much more responsive.  I'll cary a tube and also folded one of the old tires to bring along in case of a catastrophic failure(which would be needed regardless if tire had a tube or not).  I think tubeless is the way to go and would recommend to anyone.  They roll better, are more comfortable, offer almost flat free riding(yet to have a flat) and make a nice humming sound.  Don't be an old school curmudgeon and embrace it you'll be glad you did  

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