Threadless vs. Threaded Headsets

Why is a threaded headset better than threadless or vice versa? 

 

I searched through the archive.  I can't believe this is the first time this has been discussed but here goes.  I've got my popcorn and a soda.....  What do you think?!? 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by David on July 21, 2012 at 2:06am

They're not optimal designs, that's for sure, but they're a damn sight better than a rusty quill stem glued inside a tube.

If only stuck stems were actually rare.

I didn't realize this was such a contentious issue.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on July 21, 2012 at 2:21am

I pretty much specialize in working on vintage bikes and I almost never run across any that give much fight.

Perhaps "stuck" is a relative term.  I've helped countless people out who thought their stem was irreversibly stuck.  But after bringing my big heavy rubber mallet and commencing to back off the stem bolt a few threads before giving it a mighty railroad-spike hammer-blow they always go BOINK and become "un-stuck" and Bob's your uncle!

Not an issue in my experience.  

If only stuck seatposts were so easy.  Freeze-off helps a lot with those though -and a very big well-anchored vise.

Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on July 21, 2012 at 4:12am
James - I had no idea there are different reamers/tools for different headsets! So if I've got a 1" Ritchey headset going onto a Surley Crosscheck fork and my old frame I would need something besides a cup setter, star nut tool, and a crown race tool? Really?
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 21, 2012 at 11:26am

My bike gets wet on a regular basis and I have had no issue with a seized stem in the last 4-5 years of owning two bikes that get tons of use in all weather.



David said:

Yes, I meant quill stem, which I associate with threaded headset.

And I agree it's not inevitable as long as you carefully remove your stem every so often, put silver anti-seize on it, and reinsert it.  Also, make sure not to get the bike wet as water will rust it in place.

Since 95% of cyclists never will do this, it's a bad design.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 21, 2012 at 11:30am

Just curious but where do you work on bikes?

I work in an actual bike shop and volunteer at West Town Bike's open shops on a regular basis and I hardly ever see a stuck stem, less than one every couple of months, and I see at leaset one stuck seat post a week so I think I am going to have to question your statement.  The fewer seized stems is not in line with the ratio of threaded to thredless headsets I see either.  Heck, the last couple of months I have dealt with more cassettes being stuck on than I have stems...

I think it is less that it is a contentious issue and more that you are either wrong or have a very skewed frame of reference.

David said:

They're not optimal designs, that's for sure, but they're a damn sight better than a rusty quill stem glued inside a tube.

If only stuck stems were actually rare.

I didn't realize this was such a contentious issue.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on July 21, 2012 at 1:13pm

Like I said before I've never seen a stuck quill stem that I couldn't eventually get unstuck.  

I've never EVER HEARD of a stuck cassette.  Holy CRAP that sounds like a PITA.  How in the heck would one even deal with that without destroying the hub or damaging the freehub?  Removing the freehub from the hub and then carefully pounding it off from the inside with large bearing driver is the only thing I can think of short of shitcanning the whole assembly.   Sounds like it would ruin the cassette really easily if very much force was applied -maybe ruin the freehub too.  Good thing used hubs are plentiful and cheap at working bikes.  

I've seen a few really stuck freewheels but John at The Bike Lane showed me how to deal with those -just put the FW remover in a BIG sturdy vise and turn the wheel like a sea-captain in a storm.  Either the thing comes off or the wheel self-destructs but SOMETHING is going to give... 

Admittedly I work mostly on classic/vintage bikes and don't have to deal with many modern cassette drivetrains or threadless stems.  I own a cotter press and use it regularly -more than I use my "cotterless" crank remover and while I've handled one of the new hollowtech 2-piece cranksets I've yet to install or removed one of those.   I'm usually about 5-10 years behind the latest-greatest technology it seems.  

I've worked on a few threadless headsets but never needed to install one in a fresh frame or been asked to swap out one brand of threadless for another.  It is simpler/cheaper in my experience to just get the bearings that match the existing cups so I can't answer Matt's question.  I've got one of these gauges to ID what I am working on so I can procure the right parts to match the threadless headset.  

I do know that there are many different reamers/facers that Park (and other brands) sell to match the many different brands of headsets and the styles are slightly different.  When i bought my bottom bracket thread chasing/facing tool i had looked into getting a headset facing tool as well (or some parts that would go with my BB tool)  but since I rarely work on threadless headsets I felt that the cost at the time was prohibitive for a hobby-shop mechanic.  That one tool costs as much as a whole new bike...

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 21, 2012 at 3:22pm

That FSA guide sucks; the Cane Creek 'Gary Gauge' plus their website is THE jam for figuring out the headset you need.

You can usually get a stuck cassette off with a hammer and punch after soaking it or a gear puller.  It's not all that hard but it is a huge pain in the behind compared to just sliding it off. 

I would take a stuck stem over a stuck seat posy any day of the week when it comes to ease of removal.

Permalink Reply by Adam "Cezar" Jenkins on July 22, 2012 at 3:13am

Threadless is a better design mechanically, but I don't like it. Once you adjust and cut, that's it without buying extenders of some sort. That's my biggest beef with them.

Quill systems worked for decades just fine, so whatever floats your boat.

Permalink Reply by S.Presley☠ on July 22, 2012 at 3:31am

I like threadless because I can switch out handle bars without taking off breaks and shifters. I realize that some threasdless set ups still make you slide the bars through the stem, but the ones i've seen looked cheap.

Oh, and if anyone wants to see frozen quill stems, or prove their expertise on removing stuck quill stems...come to a working bikes shipping party where we have to remove a couple hundred rusted handle bars.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 22, 2012 at 3:35am

It's BRAKES!

S.Presley☠ said:

I like threadless because I can switch out handle bars without taking off breaks and shifters. I realize that some threasdless set ups still make you slide the bars through the stem, but the ones i've seen looked cheap.

Oh, and if anyone wants to see frozen quill stems, or prove their expertise on removing stuck quill stems...come to a working bikes shipping party where we have to remove a couple hundred rusted handle bars.

Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on July 22, 2012 at 4:16am
He's really talking about threadless stems....... :-) I hope my head tube can stay within the .1mm to .25mm spec as per Park Tool. I really don't want any drama at the Recyclery this week.
Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on July 22, 2012 at 4:22am

Some brakes are broken...

I like to use a threadless stem on a threaded/threadless quill adapter in a conventional threaded headset.  

Using this combination gives me the ability to still move the quill part up and down in the steer tube for adjustabilty as well as swap out the threadless stem to change the angle from the stem as well as move the bars further forward or back.  Threadless stems can be found in all different angles and lengths and often are fairly cheap.  

The only large disadvantage of this system is that a quill adapter + threadless stem weighs a bit more than a dedicated quill stem -especially really LONG quill adapters.  The biggest issue is the long stem bolt which needs to be strong and is always made out of heavy steel -adding much weight.  And the extra material around the clamp on the quill side of the stem, along with the pinch bolts, can't compete with the one-piece lightness of a regular "7" quill stem.  

Also, there are many modern quill stems that have a 2 or 4-bolt handlebar clamp with a "pop top" that allows the handlebar to be easily removed without needing to remove the bar tap/grips or breaking the brake levers down...

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