Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ali on January 26, 2009 at 6:56am

I hate to be naysayer but I am tired of bike shops dismissing people during the summer months and literally begging people to come in during the winter months. The key to customer loyalty is service all year long not just for 6 months of the year. For this very reason I have decided to buy almost everything online and install at my own leisure rather than literally having to beg for a shop owner to order me a derailleur hanger. I understand it is the busier time during the summer but that should not be an excuse to dismiss smaller orders in favor of the bigger ones.

-Ali

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Permalink Reply by root on January 26, 2009 at 7:55am

I was at Working Bikes this past weekend trying to help a friend find something to ride and couldn't believe how empty it was. In the summertime you have to show up a half hour early and wait outside in order to even have a chance at the nicer bikes

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Permalink Reply by Vondo on January 26, 2009 at 12:30pm

Amen, brotha!

The bike biz is like any other biz. What if Macy's told you "hey, beat it, I don't need your business right now, come back after the holidays, when I can't afford to turn anyone away". If they want customer loyalty, they should realize that loyalty is a two way street. If I'm not worth your trouble in June, you won't be worth mine in January.

Ali said:

I hate to be naysayer but I am tired of bike shops dismissing people during the summer months and literally begging people to come in during the winter months. The key to customer loyalty is service all year long not just for 6 months of the year. For this very reason I have decided to buy almost everything online and install at my own leisure rather than literally having to beg for a shop owner to order me a derailleur hanger. I understand it is the busier time during the summer but that should not be an excuse to dismiss smaller orders in favor of the bigger ones.

-Ali

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Permalink Reply by heather s on January 26, 2009 at 1:27pm

But you won't get as good service at Macy's during the holidays as you will at other times. your LBS isn't going to throw you out during the summer, but I think it's understandable that they are busier and have less time to devote to each customer. The bike business is actually quite different than other businesses, in climates like Chicago's at least. Most stores sell stuff that people will use all year, and that's just not true about bikes.

Vando said:

Amen, brotha!

The bike biz is like any other biz. What if Macy's told you "hey, beat it, I don't need your business right now, come back after the holidays, when I can't afford to turn anyone away". If they want customer loyalty, they should realize that loyalty is a two way street. If I'm not worth your trouble in June, you won't be worth mine in January.

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Permalink Reply by Ray on January 26, 2009 at 2:26pm

Even though the internet provides an easy way of getting whatever your looking for relatively easy, I still owe a HUGE amount of gratitude to the local shops I support. Those local shops sell on the net as well (when in rome.....) so it's all good.
Last weekend I stopped by a friends shop (Ottos cyclery) and we faced and installed headset, bottom bracket etc. Stuff that requires the right tools, and years of experience. The guy is GREAT! Today, I got hold of an expander bolt for an italian carbon fork that was impossible to find. I found it at my other favorite shop - Chicagoland bicycles- ANOTHER group of great people. So thanks to my local shops and their generosity with their time (and other) I am well on my way to finishing off my new ride THANKS to them :)

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Permalink Reply by Ali on January 26, 2009 at 2:40pm

There are hundreds of business models built upon a seasonal timeframe a few that come to mind are; ski resorts and sailing industry. You never seem to be not be able to get help from a marine supply store when there is a small pin you need, West Marine orders a small inconspicuous pin that costs 35 cents, but my LBS has a hard time ordering a part for me instead they try to sell the "hottest" gizmo instead. Unless the people in the bike industry change their mindset about customers and how to service their needs they are destined to suffer through the winter months and eventually go out of business. It's a though competitive world out there...

-Ali

heather stratton said:

But you won't get as good service at Macy's during the holidays as you will at other times. your LBS isn't going to throw you out during the summer, but I think it's understandable that they are busier and have less time to devote to each customer. The bike business is actually quite different than other businesses, in climates like Chicago's at least. Most stores sell stuff that people will use all year, and that's just not true about bikes.

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Permalink Reply by J on January 26, 2009 at 4:56pm

This is a complicated issue, but Ali's anecdote is a fair complaint. Bicycle retail is changing very rapidly, and in most cities there are examples of dying, ascendant, and stagnant business models. While customer loyalty is generically important, many successful urban shops no longer really focus on establishing tight customer relations and instead focus on location, pricing, and merchandising. Because there are more products and suppliers than ever before and customers are far savvier about products and pricing, managing special orders is really quite complicated and often unprofitable through shops without a dedicated buyer (and even then, it's often not done well). In any given day, I'll get a request for a replacement bulb on a high end German dynamo hub or a gold anodized titanium derailleur pulley bolt or a Phil Wood track cog... as anyone who works in a shop knows -- not only are such things sometimes tough to track down, but they also will come from multiple small vendors, who themselves are often a bit slow in processing orders...

That said, the industry is certainly modernizing -- many customers were lost two decades ago, much earlier than the age of the internet, to the proliferation of quality catalog retailers (Nashbar, Excel, Colorado Cyclist, etc.). What's funny is that many of these folks are among the most serious cyclists, so they'll often still hang out or frequent shops a lot. I'd estimate in fact that at least 20% of my shop's "regulars" have never actually bought anything.

The old model of the do-it-all neighborhood bike shop does persist, most often in wealthier suburbs. (There are many reasons for this, such as commercial real estate costs, lack of competition, and very importantly: easy access to cheap, reliable seasonal labor [suburban high school kids]) Chicago does have some shops that fit this mold, but again they're either geographically isolated (Irv's) or run by especially attentive (and young) owner-operators (Boulevard, Roscoe Village). But kudos to those shops who can do it all *and* make a profit.

But in the cities, shops are rapidly closing, dying, becoming hybrid web storefronts -- or most interestingly, becoming niche retailers. In Chicago, I'd put Yojimbo's, Get a Grip, and even Rapid Transit in that category. While each of these shops will technically do many things that an all-in-one shop will -- the truth is that their strength lies in what they exclude. I suppose someone could walk in to Get a Grip and special order a double legged kickstand, but somehow I doubt it. The fact that well stocked shops like Village and Performance are around the corner and websites are a click away actually allow niche shops to avoid trying to be all things to all people.

But to kind more specifically address Ali's point -- I think many shops would be smart to simply stop special orders altogether -- this will redirect customers to those few shops that are equipped to handle such requests (or actually have the inventory on hand) and make everyone happier and more efficient in the long term.

To address a more general concern about shops over the winter though -- it is a good time to get reasonable advice. Besides the fact that shop are simply not as busy -- the sad truth is that seasonal staff members get laid off in the winter and these are usually the lesser experienced mechanics and salespeople. In the summer, it's virtually impossible to get face time with a senior staff member or shop owner...

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Permalink Reply by Ali on January 26, 2009 at 5:12pm

That is a very well thought out and an honest response. I truly appreciate the effort you put into that J, well done.

-Ali

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Permalink Reply by Vondo on January 26, 2009 at 6:14pm

I think J and Ali in particular make good points here. Niche marketing and seasonal business models are definitely not new ideas. Believe it or not, I would say that 90 percent of industries are running on a seasonal model, even though it might not be as obvious as the bike business. I would say that toiletries and haircuts are in the other ten percent, but that list is extremely short. When I mentioned about Macy's telling someone to "beat it", that was a hyperbole. One way for small outfits to differentiate themselves from the big box type or online retailers is by building relationships which allow consumers to justify spending the extra couple bucks to buy from them. I might have been a bit facetious before, but still, snobbery by employees seems to be more prevalent in the bike shop world than local hardware, bakeries, and other neighborhood mom and pop type businesses.

Training staff to build those relationships with customers regardless of the season, is what makes those small outfits thrive even when facing bigger competition. Its not easy, but creating a following is how small firms grow and succeed, no matter what biz it is.

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Permalink Reply by J on January 26, 2009 at 6:20pm

>>what is Irv's "geographically isolated" from?

Other bike shops.

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Permalink Reply by Vondo on January 26, 2009 at 6:57pm

We will have to agree on having various points of view on this. Shop employees may not rake in the cash, but that's the nature of businesses with those type of margins. On the other hand, I don't rake in the cash either, so if anybody wants it, (restaurant, bike shop, tailor, etc) give me a reason not to go down the street to the other guy. Competition always benefits the consumer, how motivated would owners be to give you value for your money if people support their shop regardless of how they treat you? The DMV is one example I can think of where people just accept whatever service they get and still do business there (granted, people don't have another option) and it doesn't seem to motivate the management to improve the patrons' experience. If shops don't treat you right, don't go there, the laws of business will take care of the problem in due time and leave us the creme de la creme.

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Permalink Reply by spacemodular on January 27, 2009 at 3:49am

I think some of you have missed my point: bike shops are slow now. So if you have a project that you want a lot of attention on - you will get it more so now, then in the spring and summer when the business is lined up out the door. It is not that a bike shop wants to give bad service because they are busy (at least I hope not) in the spring and summer, but because of time and space constraints cannot give as much service individually to customers - their is too much work to be done. We try hard at our shop to make customers feel valued and that they are getting good service and quality products.

Regarding buying all of your parts on the internet - sure you can buy parts on the internet, but not all parts. Their are many components that you must buy through a licensed dealer to acquire. Also if you have a problem with a part purchased on the internet- you are stuck dealing with it yourself. Some parts require special tools or the warranty is void. If you are an experienced mechanic with a good knowledge of component specifications, their are many good deals to be had off of the net, but service is not one of them.

I have built a number of bikes for people who purchased them off of the internet and then attempted to assemble them themselves. Some went ok and why the purchaser didn't finish can be attributed to their inexperience and desire to see it done right. Other bikes have been a nightmare, because they had broken components, bad wheel sets (out of dish and/or not round) or incomplete parts sets. They ended up spending way more then necessary, because they thought they would get a better deal off of the internet. A new but destroyed wheel set is not a bargain.

I hope that more Chicago bicyclists will follow this model: Get to know your local bike shop and develop a relationship with them. If you find that you don't like the relationship, find a different shop.

I prefer going to shops where people know my name and I am treated with kindness and respect. You can find this in many local Chicago bike shops if you frequent them enough. No, you won't get the Amazon.com style instant buying gratification of the web, but the internet can't fix your bike for you or deal with your warranty issues. You can do it yourself (more power to you) or pay someone else who can guarantee their work (local bike shop).

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