So do we even have any form of moderation here?

So after the amazing shit show that was Gabe and Michelle crapping all over the message board here I think it is a good time to ask this question.

 

What happened here is ridiculous, two people were allowed to run wild like a couple of monkeys flinging shit everywhere.  Regardless of who you want to see as wrong or right there the fact remains that they were allowed to carry on completely unchecked.

 

Why?  Light moderation is one thing but why should two defective people be allowed to run wild like that?  Especially when others have been kicked off for doing the same?

 

Didn’t we kick off Beezodog for hijacking threads and not letting an argument die?

 

Of course that leads to another thing; we have some loose rules but they never seem to be enforced, why?



So what is it, do we have an enforce rules or can people just do whatever they like?  Because it mostly looks like people can just act however they want…

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Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on August 28, 2014 at 1:29pm

This is exactly why "more moderation" is such a bad idea. How are any of us supposed to know that talking about a recent flame-war, in a thread about moderation inspired by that same flame-war, is actually off-topic? If you were enforcing the rules, would this have merited a "strike?" A "warning?" A non-rule-bound invocation of principle, implicitly backed by the threat of discipline?

I think we can learn a lot by thinking about that exchange and how we can adjust our behavior relative to it, while at the same time respecting this community and trying to make it better. Nikul was very active, in that other thread, in trying to find ways to convince Michelle to disengage or to redirect her energies in a way that wouldn't torpedo the thread. I think it's natural that he came out frustrated by the exchange; and I think it's appropriate to talk about that experience, if what we want to do is get this community to function better.

h' 1.0 said:

I am really wanting to know at this point why your beef with Michelle is so intensely personal.

Total garbage to use this thread to rekindle your hostility towards her.  If you have any genuine concern for this resource you'll show it by not getting additional jabs in.

How unexpected that the strongest advocates for "moderation" are those who are most in need of it themselves.


Nikul Shah said:

While you make some good points Simon, I don't believe Michelle or Vilda would have stopped. Their dynamic was destructive. I also apologize my own conduct in perpetuating Michelle's crusade. Nonetheless, those like Michelle who flip out over small offenses within the bounds of a large/diverse community and then proceed to hold the thread hostage until everyone complies (by taking action to stop anyone making a slur) will not simply be stopped by not engaging.

This community could use a moderator who would stop extremist whose conduct undermines the purpose of a thread or this website though.
 
Simon Phearson said:

... I really think the whole thing with Vilda would have tapered off if the rest of us didn't pile on trying to convince Michelle that she was being a jerk....

Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on August 28, 2014 at 1:34pm

Vilda struck me as receptive to arguments that, for the "greater good," it would be better to disengage. I don't think we could have done anything about Michelle. But I think repeated, polite, and sincere requests by community members, to Vilda, to stop antagonizing Michelle, while at the same time ignoring Michelle, might have helped put an end to the dynamic. 

No one here is evil or "full of maggots," as Michelle so colorfully averred. 

h' 1.0 said:

I think you have a dangerously inaccurate concept of how online communities succeed relative to problem behaviors.

If you want to extinguish a behavior you don't reward it with attention at all.

It's hard, but you'll just have to imagine that others are marveling at how clever you are by not responding.


Simon Phearson said:Still, I think a concerted effort, directed to Vilda, might have helped bring it to a halt.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 28, 2014 at 2:16pm

What this forum needs is a "basement" where threads like the one yesterday are sent to burn themselves out, away from the front page. 

There is moderation and there is moderation.  Closing a thread might plug the hole in the dike but if there is enough pressure the people involved will just move the argument to another thread and it'll all pop up again somewhere else.  

But if there was a way to just banish a thread to a basement holding area where those involved could continue on with their "fun" and cry it out at each other then those who don't want to see it on the front page don't have to look at it.  Put a link at the bottom of the forum page for "the basement" and that will take them to the threads that have been moved by moderators.  Have a warning dialog pop up when the link is clicked that tells the person that "here there may be dragons" and that children might be playing rough in the basement.  Enter at your own risk, yada-yada-yada...

It's a safety valve, a place for the kids to blow of their steam away from where the adults are talking. 


I've seen it done where email notification of new posts is disabled for threads in the basement which also tends to cool them off faster.  People really have to WANT to keep engaging if they dont' get an instant notification that a new post was made.  Instead they have to keep reloading and checking the thread manually.

This would be an easy thing to moderate too.  When a thread seems like it is getting out of hand just kick it downstairs.  People can still participate if they want to so it's not as likely to piss people off about "over-moderation." 

It's win-win for everyone (except the control freaks who just NEED to tell people what they can and can't say, and demand that they are to shut up if they don't get their way.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on August 28, 2014 at 2:31pm

Howard I love you. 

Doug and Bedno have personal grudges. Let 'em run through whatever that is..

I enjoyed the nutbag that was "Michelle". She was NEVER going to stop being a terribly annoying subhuman that flat out said she didn't care about derailing a thread. What is the point in being kind to a buffoon like that?

h' 1.0 said:

Sorry, I know Vilda, as do many of us (you can tell who we are because we don't provoke Vilda) and there are only two things that would have got her to back down:

1) Thread dies because nobody is posting to it

2) Thread closed by admin.

And I'll bet she'll pop in any minute and back me up on this.

Permalink Reply by Dan Korn on August 28, 2014 at 2:54pm

Permalink Reply by Michael A on August 28, 2014 at 3:13pm

I am still wondering when I had a controversy and a post deleted?

Permalink Reply by Jaik S. on August 28, 2014 at 3:42pm

James, good focus on a "basement".

Everyone else, just understand: Until you are put in charge of 10k people and limited resources, you probably have no idea what it's like. 

I am sure that Julie and the future of the site will hold prolific ways to keep examples of moderation in place.

Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on August 28, 2014 at 4:32pm

Okay, I will jump in.  

1) yes we need more immediate moderation, but it is a very difficult task that Julie is sincerely struggling with for many of the reasons articulated above;

2) h' is right about Vilda, and Vilda I love you and hope to see you Saturday;

3) Michael, it seems impossible to me that you had a post deleted--must have been before my time.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on August 29, 2014 at 2:40am

Oh Man! Craig's letter. Good times! :-) Thought Craig and Michael are very different humans. ;-) Love you too Lisa, see you Saturday.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 29, 2014 at 3:03am

If I were an evil genius (instead of just being evil) and bent on the destruction of The Chainlink community and forums (for some nefarious purpose -perhaps to create a successful competing community and suck away the membership for huge profits or whatev) one of the very first planks in my evil plan would be to work to institute a change in the way the forums here are moderated.

The way they are being run now has had a successful track record with a membership growth curve increasing by leaps and bounds over the past few years.  In order to reverse this horrible trend things would definitely have to change.  Instituting more moderation would be the best way to torpedo this expeditive rising membership, increased forum participation, and bountiful page-clicks.

So by all means, go ahead and institute more moderation in the forums.  I'll just be over at namecheap.com buying up all the good chicagobike domain names. 

Permalink Reply by Haddon on August 29, 2014 at 3:09am

"Permalink Reply by notoriousDUG yesterday

Are you fucking kidding me?

Seriously?"

I think self moderation might be in order before complaining about the lack of moderation.

H

Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on August 29, 2014 at 4:18am
I love the basement idea. I've seen that used successfully on other forums but never gave a second thought as to its purpose. That's a good thing. It's unobtrusive and opt-in.

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