Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on November 4, 2009 at 2:32pm

I like to utilize the turn lane on the road. It works like a charm and by using my arm to signal my intentions, traffic knows what's up. At the very worst, I have to wait for the light to turn yellow but I am already in the middle of the road and committed to the turn. I never get honked at or cause someone to lose their right of way.

Clark said:

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

-An alternate left would be better here (cross street while on the right, then turn to cross the street you were just on), and you stay off the sidewalk.

So you essentially cross two streets in crosswalks...like a pedestrian. And you must get off your bike and wait for the light to cross the second street.

That's cool...but slow; crossing about as fast as a pedestrian. My three-stage technique stays off the sidewalks too (usually). You're just making good use of the bike lane on BOTH sides of the road. The advantage is that you don't have to wait for any traffic light or stop at all. And you're completely invisible to drivers...at your own peril of course if something goes wrong.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick M on November 4, 2009 at 2:45pm

I never quite agreed with that motto "we are traffic." I think cyclists are more like anti-traffic. You don't see bikers stuck in traffic.

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

This must be a joke. An aside - I enjoy complaining about people who don't take the time to proofread their writing. *now taking bets on how many posts it will take for someone to accuse me of hating Jews and irrationally tying grammar to it*

"For instance go the wrong way down lake. It is an exciting and dangerous ride, but a car would never make it. So I think aslong as the cyclist doesn't screw up they can do what ever they want."

-That's an interesting point seeing as how going the wrong way down Lake St is a possible definition for screwing up in this context.


So, pretty much what I'm seeing here Patrick, is you saying "If I get into an accident, I'll be the one worse off, so fuck traffic laws."

Is that true for all cases? What if you hit another cyclist, or a pedestrian (yes, as much as many love to jaywalk and walk blindly across the crosswalk, who's going to be likely more injured - you, or the person who was just unexpectedly plowed into by you)?

As for the traffic laws that you want to disregard so much, what about the motto "WE ARE TRAFFIC"? We want to be respected by cars and yet you seem to not want to act like traffic, even though you are on a road. If it was a choice left up to the motorist to stop at lights and stop signs, well, I'm sure you can come to the conclusion I have in mind.

We complain about pissy motorists adding a couple minutes to their commute to slow down for us for our safety, but we should be allowed to do whatever we please? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on November 4, 2009 at 3:38pm

Ok, I had to visualize that three-stage turn more.

Interesting, but it seems like it would be safest if you had to cross one lane of oncoming traffic and next to suicidal if there was more than a single lane coming toward you (both before and after the left turn).

Clark said:

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

-An alternate left would be better here (cross street while on the right, then turn to cross the street you were just on), and you stay off the sidewalk.

So you essentially cross two streets in crosswalks...like a pedestrian. And you must get off your bike and wait for the light to cross the second street.

That's cool...but slow; crossing about as fast as a pedestrian. My three-stage technique stays off the sidewalks too (usually). You're just making good use of the bike lane on BOTH sides of the road. The advantage is that you don't have to wait for any traffic light or stop at all. And you're completely invisible to drivers...at your own peril of course if something goes wrong.

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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on November 4, 2009 at 3:41pm

The "WE ARE TRAFFIC" motto isn't meant as "We get in traffic jam like cars too." It means: We also can use the road - respect us and be courteous.

Patrick M said:

I never quite agreed with that motto "we are traffic." I think cyclists are more like anti-traffic. You don't see bikers stuck in traffic.

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

This must be a joke. An aside - I enjoy complaining about people who don't take the time to proofread their writing. *now taking bets on how many posts it will take for someone to accuse me of hating Jews and irrationally tying grammar to it*

"For instance go the wrong way down lake. It is an exciting and dangerous ride, but a car would never make it. So I think aslong as the cyclist doesn't screw up they can do what ever they want."

-That's an interesting point seeing as how going the wrong way down Lake St is a possible definition for screwing up in this context.


So, pretty much what I'm seeing here Patrick, is you saying "If I get into an accident, I'll be the one worse off, so fuck traffic laws."

Is that true for all cases? What if you hit another cyclist, or a pedestrian (yes, as much as many love to jaywalk and walk blindly across the crosswalk, who's going to be likely more injured - you, or the person who was just unexpectedly plowed into by you)?

As for the traffic laws that you want to disregard so much, what about the motto "WE ARE TRAFFIC"? We want to be respected by cars and yet you seem to not want to act like traffic, even though you are on a road. If it was a choice left up to the motorist to stop at lights and stop signs, well, I'm sure you can come to the conclusion I have in mind.

We complain about pissy motorists adding a couple minutes to their commute to slow down for us for our safety, but we should be allowed to do whatever we please? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Petersen on November 6, 2009 at 8:52am

Turn lane is still the best option. All too often I have seen riders trying this technique only to have to jam on their brakes - or lock up their rear wheel - trying to avoid traffic. Why is it such a difficult task to utilise the turn lane? I often have to turn off of Lincoln onto Fullerton eastbound: I have never had an issue while using the turn lane though I have had to pick riders attempting the three left turn method up off of the ground after they plowed into the side of a car that had to stop short in traffic. More than once. Sad. If you own your space, are in the right gear and ready to move, are aware of your surroundings, you should be able to accomplish a left turn perfectly safely.

Also liberal use of sidewalks is prohibited unless you are under twelve years of age. It isn't legal to ride on the sidewalk.


Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

Ok, I had to visualize that three-stage turn more.

Interesting, but it seems like it would be safest if you had to cross one lane of oncoming traffic and next to suicidal if there was more than a single lane coming toward you (both before and after the left turn).

Clark said:

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

-An alternate left would be better here (cross street while on the right, then turn to cross the street you were just on), and you stay off the sidewalk.

So you essentially cross two streets in crosswalks...like a pedestrian. And you must get off your bike and wait for the light to cross the second street.

That's cool...but slow; crossing about as fast as a pedestrian. My three-stage technique stays off the sidewalks too (usually). You're just making good use of the bike lane on BOTH sides of the road. The advantage is that you don't have to wait for any traffic light or stop at all. And you're completely invisible to drivers...at your own peril of course if something goes wrong.

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Permalink Reply by your duncle on November 6, 2009 at 11:35am

Follow the "Law of the Jungle".

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Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on November 6, 2009 at 10:37pm

Until we can unite as a front (organized bikers) we will never accomplish shit! Ride with the existing laws and bend them, or, be a complete maverick and make your own rules. Make up your mind! you can't be half and half! Be an accountable human! Either you observe the laws, and from time to time you bend them, within reason, or you are a complete anarchist, which is cool, but you suck ass for the rest of us! Which is it? Make yourself known! So I can avoid your mere presence at any and all times when I can!

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Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on November 7, 2009 at 8:25am

Clark, I am talking about anyone who uses the road, bikers and drivers alike. However, because of the fact that this is a forum for bikers I am definitely aiming this rant at those that bike with total disregard for the law. The use of your three-stage turn is not what I am talking about. In fact, the law states that a biker can either use the turn lane to make left turns or utilize the cross walks like a pedestrian. If you are talking about salmoning in order to achieve your "safe" passage, I would say please consider who else you are putting at risk. I saw a biker, fixed gear with out hand brakes, blow through Diversey/Lincoln/Racine in between moving cars yesterday morning. That is total disregard and I don't want a maverick like that near me at all. Go to a velodrome for that crap. So, Clark, bike how you need to to stay safe, I want you to be safe. If you do things that you think are safe for you but endanger others, well then I have a problem with that.

Clark said:

mattbikes1 said:

Either you observe the laws, and from time to time you bend them, within reason, or you are a complete anarchist....Which is it? Make yourself known! So I can avoid your mere presence at any and all times when I can!

Is mattbikes1's rant aimed at Drivers or Bikers? I submit that every Driver on the road gleefully breaks speed, following-distance, parking, and many other laws. Since I have no lifesaving seatbelt on my bike, I WILL bike to stay safe on the road...even if it means breaking a few laws intended for cars. And making three-stage left turns is safer than hanging out in the middle of intersections like a duck in a shooting gallery...particularly that Lincoln-Fullerton-Halsted six-way intersection!

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