Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom Z on April 19, 2014 at 4:49pm

I drive an automatic car, but also down shift the bicycle when stopping. It makes for a better start and much easier to cross a street at a STOP sign.

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Permalink Reply by Drewbacca on April 19, 2014 at 5:21pm

I drive a manual... I detest automatics.

Sometimes I downshift on the bike, sometimes I don't. It's probably 50/50. It depends on if my head is in the game or I'm just pedalling through the motions. 

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Permalink Reply by yai danche on April 19, 2014 at 6:36pm

my lowest gear is too twitchy so i stay in the middle gear.  also it's not a race for me.  if there is another cyclist ahead of me, i let them go first even if they use the curb for push off (using the curb to me indicates a less confident cyclist so probably slower as well).

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Permalink Reply by Hey! Bike Shop Guy on April 20, 2014 at 4:04am

I often wonder the same thing about why so few people seem to downshift when stopping; that's the whole point of having gears...

I think it mostly has to do with one of three things:

-A lack of knowledge about how their bike works, how to work the gears or what is the best way to shift.  I think a lot of that comes because lots of shops sell people bikes without really filling novices in on how to take advantage of the bike they purchased.

-Their bike does not work properly so they cannot easily shift up and down forcing them to have to start in a high gear all the time.

-They are not confident enough to deal with that much operator work load.

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Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on April 20, 2014 at 5:30am

It all kind of depends. If I'm working hard in a high gear, I might downshift going into a full stop. If I'm in a high gear but the wind is helping and I'm going into a decline, I might keep it high. I won't drop more than a gear or maybe two; certainly not into one of my "lowest" gears, which I don't usually use anyway.

If you're stopping and starting a lot, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try to finesse the gears between each stop. By the time you've effectively shifted up a gear or two, it's time to slow down and go back down a gear or two. Meanwhile, you're partly distracting yourself from traffic. I think it's better to find a good "average" gear for starting and maintaining a good speed.

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Permalink Reply by EssFresh on April 20, 2014 at 6:27am

I down shift as well. I noticed that a lot of folks on geared bikes prefer to leave it in one "sweet spot" gear and not fuss with shifting. Not sure if this has to do with the terrain of Chicago, ignorance or laziness. Regardless, after the light goes green they are up off the saddle pumping away to get back up to speed. I courteously pass them, expending less energy as I go through my gears appropriately. I also ride a fixed gear but don't recall ever doing this stand/pump thing.   

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Permalink Reply by Marc-Paul Lee on April 20, 2014 at 7:13am

That's just what I'm talking about!  Shifting gears is neither difficult nor distracting, at least not if you're on a modern bike with indexed shifting and there's no reason not to shift down.  I will shift two, three maybe even four gears when coming back up to speed after a full stop and it's just automatic.  I hardly even think about it.  It would be silly to leave you're card in third when coming to a red light so why do it on a bike?  

I'm also intrigued with your off-hand comment that you don't usually use your lowest gears.  I wonder if some cyclists have the idea that lower gears are for weenies?  It's difficult to see why that would be when one can start faster from a dead stop in a lower gear.  I once read that in the pro peloton they are constantly shifting gears even for a modest rise in the terrain.  If gears are good enough for them well then I guess they're good enough for me, too.  

Simon Phearson said:

It all kind of depends. If I'm working hard in a high gear, I might downshift going into a full stop. If I'm in a high gear but the wind is helping and I'm going into a decline, I might keep it high. I won't drop more than a gear or maybe two; certainly not into one of my "lowest" gears, which I don't usually use anyway.

If you're stopping and starting a lot, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try to finesse the gears between each stop. By the time you've effectively shifted up a gear or two, it's time to slow down and go back down a gear or two. Meanwhile, you're partly distracting yourself from traffic. I think it's better to find a good "average" gear for starting and maintaining a good speed.

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Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on April 20, 2014 at 8:28am

I'm not sure what makes you think you're more intimately familiar with my experience of riding my bikes than I am. 

Shifting gears does require an awareness of what you're doing. You have to be pedaling, for instance, and in my experience, for a smooth shift, it's best to be pedaling with a degree of effort that doesn't put too much tension on the chain. When I'm doing my stop-and-start riding downtown, I don't want to be worried about that choreography, as subtle as it might be. I'm wanting to be aware of and visible to cross-traffic, non-signaling cars drifting into the bike lane, and the like.

I don't have any particular disdain for my "lowest gears," I just find those gears to be so slippery and easy that I never feel I need to use them. To be clear, I'm talking about the most forgiving gear ratios on my bikes - not the lower end of the rear while on a higher end of the front, which I would have more intuitively described as more middle-range gears. The only time I flirt with using the "lowest gears" is when the conditions are such that I can't maintain a comfortable cadence otherwise. But I'm otherwise constantly making adjustments as the terrain and conditions vary - I'm not afraid of doing that.

I'm not trying to be superior or blockheaded, or to pass judgment on your own style. I'm just describing what feels comfortable to me and the way that I ride.

If it makes you feel good to get the half-second lead on traffic that starting from a full-stop on a lower gear grants you, that's great. But I can assure you that I'll be ahead of you momentarily.

Marc-Paul Lee said:

That's just what I'm talking about!  Shifting gears is neither difficult nor distracting, at least not if you're on a modern bike with indexed shifting and there's no reason not to shift down.  I will shift two, three maybe even four gears when coming back up to speed after a full stop and it's just automatic.  I hardly even think about it.  It would be silly to leave you're card in third when coming to a red light so why do it on a bike?  

I'm also intrigued with your off-hand comment that you don't usually use your lowest gears.  I wonder if some cyclists have the idea that lower gears are for weenies?  It's difficult to see why that would be when one can start faster from a dead stop in a lower gear.  I once read that in the pro peloton they are constantly shifting gears even for a modest rise in the terrain.  If gears are good enough for them well then I guess they're good enough for me, too.  

Simon Phearson said:

It all kind of depends. If I'm working hard in a high gear, I might downshift going into a full stop. If I'm in a high gear but the wind is helping and I'm going into a decline, I might keep it high. I won't drop more than a gear or maybe two; certainly not into one of my "lowest" gears, which I don't usually use anyway.

If you're stopping and starting a lot, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to try to finesse the gears between each stop. By the time you've effectively shifted up a gear or two, it's time to slow down and go back down a gear or two. Meanwhile, you're partly distracting yourself from traffic. I think it's better to find a good "average" gear for starting and maintaining a good speed.

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Permalink Reply by Marc-Paul Lee on April 20, 2014 at 1:03pm

I'm sorry if you took offense at any of my comments, Simon.  That was certainly not my intent.  

I have wondered for years why it is that I'm typically the first one off the line.  It's not that I'm a strong rider and you very well may have passed me.  Your statement that you might shift down one or two gears to avoid needing to shift too much when starting up does not ring true to my experience.  What difference does it make if it's one gear or four?  Shifting is shifting, unless you have friction shifters in which case then I totally understand.  I see these older bikes from time to time and it makes sense that those riders would want to be more careful in shifting, particularly from a stop in traffic.  For indexed shifting, though, I don't see the difference.  

At any rate, it comes back to my theory that some riders may not be as familiar with the concept of shifting if they don't drive a manual shift car.  I'm open to other ideas, of course.  

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Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on April 20, 2014 at 2:16pm

Why is it a matter of being "unfamiliar" with "the concept of shifting?" Isn't it entirely possible that you shift on a bike the way that you do because your car experience has led you to think that you need to shift down more than you actually need to?

Maybe it's just my experience with derailleurs and my ongoing search for a mechanic that knows how to properly adjust them, but I don't generally feel comfortable shifting as rapidly as you would need to in order to drop or pick up four gears between blocks in stop-start traffic. I generally wait for a gear to fully "lock" into place before pushing it the next step. So the rhythm I'd experience is more like: shift - left-right-left-right - shift - left-right-left-right - shift, etc. - and if I'm picking up gears, that means I'm already to the next block by the time I get to the third or fourth shift. Then I might need to stop. So then it's shift - left-right-left-right, etc. Maybe you're comfortable with the shift-shift-shift-shift - kchicka-chicka-chicka-THUNK-ka-THUNK, which is the only way I can imagine efficiently dropping or gaining that many gears on a block-stretch, but it makes me ill.

Like I said, I shift the way I do because it feels comfortable for me. I'm not actually unfamiliar with shifting, like you seem to think I must be, just because it so happens that I feel like I get the start that works for me by dropping no more than maybe one gear into a stop. Since I ride with clipless pedals, that slower start and push gives me a consistent chance to click in, and I honestly don't think I'm one of these wobbley types you seem to have in mind, anyway. 

Indeed, I would suggest that it's not my lack of familiarity with manual transmissions that causes me to shift the way that I do, but the fact that I've spent far more road time on my bikes than in any car and have developed an approach that's native to that experience.

Marc-Paul Lee said:

I'm sorry if you took offense at any of my comments, Simon.  That was certainly not my intent.  

I have wondered for years why it is that I'm typically the first one off the line.  It's not that I'm a strong rider and you very well may have passed me.  Your statement that you might shift down one or two gears to avoid needing to shift too much when starting up does not ring true to my experience.  What difference does it make if it's one gear or four?  Shifting is shifting, unless you have friction shifters in which case then I totally understand.  I see these older bikes from time to time and it makes sense that those riders would want to be more careful in shifting, particularly from a stop in traffic.  For indexed shifting, though, I don't see the difference.  

At any rate, it comes back to my theory that some riders may not be as familiar with the concept of shifting if they don't drive a manual shift car.  I'm open to other ideas, of course.  

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Permalink Reply by Lanterne Rouge on April 20, 2014 at 2:22pm

Up until a month ago, all I had ever owned was a manual transmission car. So, as a newbie to biking some 4 years ago, I was efficiently shifting from the get-go. My wife, on the other hand, thinks derailleurs and shifters are some sort of dark magic, and doesn't understand why or when someone would use them. She was also a woefully bad manual transmission driver, so I would like to think that correlation does imply causation.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on April 20, 2014 at 2:25pm

Gentlemen:  Why do you care what other people do?  I learned to drive a manual transmission in my youth many years ago, and I like it.  I don't shift up and down on my bike as much you might think I should, but I am perfectly comfortable with what I do.  You should shift in the way you like, I will shift in the way I like, and we will all have fun riding our bikes.

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