Clark Park Boathouse Discussion

Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.


We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.


A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.


http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-... 


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Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 11, 2012 at 10:49am

Tim- thanks for your thoughts.  I don't know who is circulating that "plan" but the one the Park District gave us shows a lot of concrete apron around the boat house and a large drive-in slab leading to Rockwell.  That's how we figure the two acres rendered unusable to anyone but the boat house.

I have that drawing on my computer but it's a pdf and this site won't let me upload it.  I tried to do a  jpeg but the drawing comes out unreadable.Mail me at cpac.treasurer@gmail.com and I'll send the pdf file.

While you would like a rowing facility it our park, please be mindful that as an Advisory Council we have heard from many different groups.  Are there more rowers than soccer players?  I think not.  And yet we had to give up one of two proposed soccer fields to accommodate the new baseball stadium, another concern expressed by Lane parents.  If we put in a soccer field and volleyball court east of RockWell and the boathouse, a basketball court, dog run, and a playground west of Rockwell, we're looking at a significant loss of greenspace.  What about people that just want to come out and enjoy a park?  We have to consider all of these groups, not just rowers.

Tim S said:

Hello Bill's,

Thank you for coming here to actually discuss this unlike a few who have done a grave disservice to your cause and had it not been the initial twisting of reality on Yelp I must say I would not have really paid attention to this. I only wanted to get the real story to see if it was a worthy project, and the more I see the more I like it.

1. Native Garden at CP in danger of becoming a parking lot - FALSE http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-native-garden-at-clark-park-in-da...

2. Help Save the Garden Dirt Jumps - There is a proposition to turn Clark Park into a private boatyard. Please sign this petition and spread the word. - FALSE - http://cambr.org/SMF/index.php?topic=21930.0 - generated 11 signatures, at least one (A moderator at CAMBR) has changed their stance and publicly stated so in the thread.

3. and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete - FALSE spread on Yelp, CAMBR and the change.org petition

There have been others but those are the big 3 I believe.

I may show up at your next meeting to see more of the plans because when I play with your original plans for the multi-unit set up at the South end of the park it takes up almost as much space it is just a different orientation. It almost looks like it has the same amount of concrete apron that leads into the Gardens. Your proposal seems to be more of a threat to the BMX'rs. In fact they propose the removal of the track and reinstalling it a little farther south. Seems that tearing out an exsisting structure to move it a mere 100 or so ft to the south in the forest is more destructive to the native land that putting up the boat house in open space.

You have mentioned that the CPD is going to put in a base ball stadium north of the Park, all I can see is a proposal for one east of the park and immediately south of the Lane Tech stadium which seems like a logical place. Re the Nursing School, fantastic that DeVry is committed to staying in the neighbourhood and both will be attracting far more people than the proposed boat house.

and finally to Lorraine - Your new mention (tkx bbry) of the narrowness of the river. It is not a problem, my University held a regatta every year on a narrow body of water where the boats raced in heats and competed in time trials http://www.headofthetrent.ca/course_map.html As you can see the course they race narrows significantly and it does not interfere with the present regatta. Over 50 universities and clubs competing with an estimated 1,200 athletes participating over the course of the day — making Head of the Trent the largest single day regatta in North America.

Happy to see a real conversation taking place rather than knee jerk reactions to half truths and lies.

PS - Regarding the picture being used to garner support. It does not show the real scope of the project from the angle shown. Both from a orientation blocking the ample space beyond to the road and the missing images of Lane Tech & Stadium to give it a scale.  If you have to be deceitful in order to back up your "side" your side looses some serious credibility.

Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 11, 2012 at 10:55am

Here's jpeg rendering from the Park District

Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 11, 2012 at 11:02am

Wow,  those are huge and for sure doesn't work with the proposed (and seemingly cancelled) bike/ped bridge.

It's too bad.

As a bicyclist who has to cross the dangerous Diversey and/or Belmont road river bridges on a nearly daily basis I was hoping that there would be a less deadly alternative available to bicyclists.  But I guess that is not to be.  Too bad a private warehouse for boats is higher up on the list of priorities for Chicago to spend money on and utilize space in public land/parks. 



Bill Barnes said:

Here's jpeg rendering from the Park District

Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 11, 2012 at 11:09am



Bill Barnes said:

Tim- thanks for your thoughts.  I don't know who is circulating that "plan" but the one the Park District gave us shows a lot of concrete apron around the boat house and a large drive-in slab leading to Rockwell.  That's how we figure the two acres rendered unusable to anyone but the boat house.

I have that drawing on my computer but it's a pdf and this site won't let me upload it.  I tried to do a  jpeg but the drawing comes out unreadable.Mail me at cpac.treasurer@gmail.com and I'll send the pdf file.

While you would like a rowing facility it our park, please be mindful that as an Advisory Council we have heard from many different groups.  Are there more rowers than soccer players?  I think not.  And yet we had to give up one of two proposed soccer fields to accommodate the new baseball stadium, another concern expressed by Lane parents.  If we put in a soccer field and volleyball court east of RockWell and the boathouse, a basketball court, dog run, and a playground west of Rockwell, we're looking at a significant loss of greenspace.  What about people that just want to come out and enjoy a park?  We have to consider all of these groups, not just rowers.

And please let's clear this up for good.  Lorraine Reder was referring to her native plant gardens not the bmx track.  Nobody had any idea that Cambr west would call the woods "the gardens".

Tim S said:

Hello Bill's,

Thank you for coming here to actually discuss this unlike a few who have done a grave disservice to your cause and had it not been the initial twisting of reality on Yelp I must say I would not have really paid attention to this. I only wanted to get the real story to see if it was a worthy project, and the more I see the more I like it.

1. Native Garden at CP in danger of becoming a parking lot - FALSE http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-native-garden-at-clark-park-in-da...

2. Help Save the Garden Dirt Jumps - There is a proposition to turn Clark Park into a private boatyard. Please sign this petition and spread the word. - FALSE - http://cambr.org/SMF/index.php?topic=21930.0 - generated 11 signatures, at least one (A moderator at CAMBR) has changed their stance and publicly stated so in the thread.

3. and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete - FALSE spread on Yelp, CAMBR and the change.org petition

There have been others but those are the big 3 I believe.

I may show up at your next meeting to see more of the plans because when I play with your original plans for the multi-unit set up at the South end of the park it takes up almost as much space it is just a different orientation. It almost looks like it has the same amount of concrete apron that leads into the Gardens. Your proposal seems to be more of a threat to the BMX'rs. In fact they propose the removal of the track and reinstalling it a little farther south. Seems that tearing out an exsisting structure to move it a mere 100 or so ft to the south in the forest is more destructive to the native land that putting up the boat house in open space.

You have mentioned that the CPD is going to put in a base ball stadium north of the Park, all I can see is a proposal for one east of the park and immediately south of the Lane Tech stadium which seems like a logical place. Re the Nursing School, fantastic that DeVry is committed to staying in the neighbourhood and both will be attracting far more people than the proposed boat house.

and finally to Lorraine - Your new mention (tkx bbry) of the narrowness of the river. It is not a problem, my University held a regatta every year on a narrow body of water where the boats raced in heats and competed in time trials http://www.headofthetrent.ca/course_map.html As you can see the course they race narrows significantly and it does not interfere with the present regatta. Over 50 universities and clubs competing with an estimated 1,200 athletes participating over the course of the day — making Head of the Trent the largest single day regatta in North America.

Happy to see a real conversation taking place rather than knee jerk reactions to half truths and lies.

PS - Regarding the picture being used to garner support. It does not show the real scope of the project from the angle shown. Both from a orientation blocking the ample space beyond to the road and the missing images of Lane Tech & Stadium to give it a scale.  If you have to be deceitful in order to back up your "side" your side looses some serious credibility.

Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 11, 2012 at 4:42pm

I've brought up this very issue but not for the boat house, for a parking garage.  Everyone looked at me like I'm crazy.  It's a brilliant idea.   I'm sorry the dimwitted don't get it.  "it'll cost too much" or "the soils too soft" are replies.  Nonsense.  While they are able to drop 5 million  on a ball stadium and 6-9 million on a boat house why can't they provide parking.  This goes to show where their priorities lie.

Thunder Snow said:

An architectural solution to this problem could be: build the boathouse mostly underground.  Millennium Park sits on top of a hidden parking garage and train tracks.  There's no reason Clark Park couldn't sit comfortably on an underground boat storage facility and indoor rowing tank, with possibly a river bank berm above (new sledding hill in the winter), open to the river but fully planted overhead, with only a small entrance above.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 11, 2012 at 5:00pm

I'm in favor of burying ALL the cars under the earth.

Who else says Aye?

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 11, 2012 at 7:43pm

Yeah, below-ground construction saves all kinds of money: extremely low heating and cooling costs, as the temperature tends to stay the same year round just a few feet below the surface.  A quick concrete pour using "bathtub construction": a water-tight container surrounding the storage spaces.  No need for expensive materials or fancy finishes, as three walls, the ceiling and floor are all below ground.  Only the face, visible only from below on the river, needs to be finished.

I learned a lot about below grade construction when I shot a documentary video for McDonald's Corporation, which built a three-level parking garage directly beneath its (then) new corporate headquarters in wet, swampy soil in Oak Brook.  The architect explained to me how they used New Orleans style "bathtub construction" to seal out the water from the parking lot levels.

And yes, James BlackHeron, I believe surface parking lots are an abomination everywhere and should be zoned out of existence.  Shopping centers, supermarkets and office buildings that are surrounded by acres of parking are beyond absurd, when parking spaces can be either below the building or on the roof, not taking up space that could be utilized for gardens, wetlands, farming or other better uses.

 

Hobbit-holes for the oarsmen:

Permalink Reply by Joe Schmoe on April 12, 2012 at 8:49am

The greenspace argument is a good one; a better one is to call this what it is: a land-grab of public land for private interests. Construction projects such as this that abut water rarely, if ever can follow their exact plan.  Things come up, and designs have to change.  There is no guarantee that the things that these folks claim won't be disturbed, in fact, won't be disturbed.  If you can explain how it's not a private land grab, I'm all ears. 


And for the record, you're all completely insane for wanting to row in one of the most polluted tracts of water in the continental US.  It makes me physically nauseous.  Viva la bike. Viva la walking trail. 

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 12, 2012 at 11:03am

People actually wanting to use the river for recreation is the first step in people wanting to keep it clean and make it even cleaner.    Owning the waterway and having a stake in it is the way that enough folks will care enough to really make sure it doesn't get any worse and continues to get better.

Cameron Puetz said:

The amount of contact with the water that rowers have is minimal enough that there aren't serious health concerns with the amount of pollution in the Chicago river. The kayakers already using the river have much more contact with the water. The similarly polluted Milwaukee and Cayuga Rivers have a significant number of rowers, and even in it's peak of pollution the Charles River remained very popular for rowers.



Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 12, 2012 at 1:27pm

Just today, the Governor announced $10 Million to go toward cleaning up the river, so there is some good movement there in the right direction.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-quinn-pledges...

Quinn pledges $10 million for Chicago River cleanup

By Michael Hawthorne Tribune reporter

11:45 a.m. CDT, April 12, 2012

 

Gov. Pat Quinn announced today that Illinois will contribute $10 million to help make stretches of the Chicago River system safer for recreation, the latest step in a decades-long effort to improve waterways that were turned into sewage canals more than a century ago.
The taxpayer-funded contribution from the state’s capital fund will cover about half the design costs for equipment that would kill disease-causing bacteria in treated sewage pumped into the North Shore Channel and Little Calumet River. Depending on the time of year, between 60 percent and 100 percent of the water in the channels comes from massive plants that treat human and industrial waste water for Chicago and the Cook County suburbs.

Quinn announced the state’s contribution to the project at a Goose Island news conference today with Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Lisa Jackson, administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The entire project is expected to cost $139 million, about seven times less than the $1 billion that officials at the Metropolitan Water Reclamation District once said it would require. Officials now say they can pay for the project without a tax increase.

Permalink Reply by Tim S on April 13, 2012 at 4:41am

For those that are interested in the revitalization of the Chicago River...

"12 DESIGNERS, 12 VISIONS presents the culmination of an intense research-based design project for this eclectic group of students. In this studio, the students of the GSD have embraced and maximized the latent potential of the South Branch with inventive and resourceful urban proposals in which existing vacancies are transformed into fresh, vibrant urban conditions. Highlighting each individual's visionary plan for the South Branch of the Chicago River, this film captures the students' carefully-crafted presentations as well as the insightful comments of the guests invited to the final critique." 

http://vimeo.com/37273403

Permalink Reply by David on April 13, 2012 at 6:20am

I'm not really ensure it's any more of a land-grab for private interests than the Millenium bike station, the velodrome plans, the natatorium (I love that word), or the various swimming pools, gyms, and many other recreation facilities in our parks today.  They all feature a mixture of public and membership-only access; even the soccer fields in many areas are so crowded that, in practice, you need to belong to a paid private league to access them.  In fact, I can't even tell if the Clark Park Advisory Council believes the boathouse is really a bad idea or not: in some of their writings they oppose it completely, but at other times they say it's a good thing but just want it built in somebody else's neighborhood. If it's just a private land grab, then they shouldn't be suggesting moving it to another park as an alternative.

I have sympathy for their position.  People pay an awful lot of money to live in Roscoe Village, and I'm sure the pristine private community riverpark was one of the things they felt they paid for.  I get that.  And I like Clark Park; it's a unique park in the city and maybe it really should be left alone.  But this seems to me to be an argument between two well-intentioned groups that have differing visions of how to best provide access to the city's natural resources, especially the river.   The constant name-calling and misinformation from the Park Council side is really rubbing me the wrong way (the complete exception here is Bill Donahue, who has been informative and polite throughout this thread).

Believe it or not, you can have disagreements without the other side being evil.

Joe Schmoe said:

The greenspace argument is a good one; a better one is to call this what it is: a land-grab of public land for private interests. Construction projects such as this that abut water rarely, if ever can follow their exact plan.  Things come up, and designs have to change.  There is no guarantee that the things that these folks claim won't be disturbed, in fact, won't be disturbed.  If you can explain how it's not a private land grab, I'm all ears.
And for the record, you're all completely insane for wanting to row in one of the most polluted tracts of water in the continental US.  It makes me physically nauseous.  Viva la bike. Viva la walking trail.

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