Clark Park Boathouse Discussion
Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.
We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.
A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.
http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-...
Views: 12074
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on
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What is going to happen to the plan to build a bike/ped bridge at the Roscoe corridor? Looks to me like this building is sitting smack dab in the way. Is that out now?
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Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on
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James- I asked the same question to the Park District and was told the bridge idea had been scrapped in favor of some other crossing.
James BlackHeron said:What is going to happen to the plan to build a bike/ped bridge at the Roscoe corridor? Looks to me like this building is sitting smack dab in the way. Is that out now?
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:(
I guess we know now which side of the bread is buttered..
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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on
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Well said Cameron.
All I'll add is that I'm not sure why this has become so personal for the new chainlink members from the Clark Park Advisory Council, but I'm going to find out.
Cameron Puetz said:Bill Barnes
The accusation of lies being spread has to do with uninformed assumptions being presented as facts, and never backed up. Initially the claim was made that the Garden would be removed, then when questioned that claim was retracted. Then the claim was made that this project was a warehouse for boats primarialy used elsewhere, and not a facility for launching boats. Despite it's counter intuitiveness, this claim still has not been backed up and appears to be another distortion. Playing fast and loose with facts is a poor way to build your group's credibility or convince people of your position. Also as someone posting for the first time, attacking a poster known personally to many of this form's readers for trying to hide his identity by not including his last name is a good way to alienate people and further diminish your credibility.
The issue of the rental being closed during crew events is a legitimate concern, and needs further clarification. If this is only during regattas, as is typical of most public boat houses, then this is probably only an issue 2-3 days a year as no boathouse in the Midwest hosts more than a few regattas. In my opinion, the benefit of having the new facility the rest of the season outweighs the harm of the dock being closed a few times a year. If the rental is closed whenever a crew club is on the water, then that would be a major problem. However, I have never seen a boathouse where this was the case.
Bill Donahue
The reason that you have never seen rowing on this stretch of the river is because it's very difficult to transport shells, therefore it's rare to see one very far from a boathouse. A 23 foot shell is probably a single, possibly a junior's double or pair, so the number of people that it takes to operate one is small. I don't follow your argument as to why these boats would frequently be used elsewhere.
As for your concerns about park maintenance, we'd all like the city to be more responsive to our concerns. I'm often baffled about how there's always money for grand capital projects but never for boring run of the mill repairs. I understand your frustration, but the situation is hardly unique.
From what I can tell of this project, it seems like a good project. The building looks like a nice building and being set against the woods on the south side of the park seems unlikely to dominate the remaining green space. The river is a very under used asset and I applaud the city's efforts to make it more assessable.
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Kevin- It's not personal. But we've got a lot of time and energy invested in this park. We don't get paid. We volunteered to get involved. We are attempting to do what is best for the COMMUNITY, not for one single interest.
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Alright, let's get started then.
The Clark Park Advisory Council website identifies corporate/institutional members as Roscoe Village Neighbors, Ald. Ameya Pawar, Kitty Gale from the Chicago Park District, Rep. John Fritchey, Chicago River Canoe and Kayak, and The Garden. I don't think the Garden is actually a formal entity, but do you speak for any of these members? Are the views expressed by you, Bill Donahue, and Lorraine Reder the views of the CP Advisory Council? A majority?
I'm assuming Friends of the Park's status as "fiscal agent" is by virtue of their NFP/501(c)(3) status and you are able to accept charitable contributions with them as a conduit. Your NFP corporation was involuntarily dissolved by the SOS on 5/1/96. I'm also assuming that was not enough time for CPAC to qualify with the IRS as a tax exempt entity on its own.
Do you speak for Friends of the Park?
What is your total membership?
Bill Barnes said:Kevin- It's not personal. But we've got a lot of time and energy invested in this park. We don't get paid. We volunteered to get involved. We are attempting to do what is best for the COMMUNITY, not for one single interest.
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Hello,
This responds to several posts that I have seen coming in while I was watching the cubs lose tonight. This is a very good conversation by the way. I can understand the interest and the various ways people are looking at the issues involved. The Advisory Council is a democratic group which meets monthly and we have voted on our opposition to the crew rowing facility and boat warehouse. We have voted in FAVOR of a smaller boathouse which was presented to us and is much lower impact and solves a different set of problems, which we have been working on for a number of years. The membership costs is $5 a year and is open to the public. We have some institutional supporters who have participated with some of our events and some choose to come to the meetings and vote. FOTP(Friends of the Parks), our fiscal agent is one of the oldest and most respected not for profit groups in the City, I would encourage you to check our their website. FOTP.org. I am certain that the not for profit status is current and has been for a long time, since they are currently sponsoring numerous advisory councils throughout the city. Also, we need to produce a current copy of the non profit status on an annual basis in order to be approved for donations and events by the park district. FOTP has never had a problem providing this for us.
As far as different views being stated on the subjects at hand - our advisory council did not invent the premise of this discussion - that "the garden" would be removed by the boathouse. I think that this was a simple error on the part of the framer of the original post, who none of us know personally and who has since acknowledged the mistake and been participating in a reasonable give and take on the other important issues at hand.
As far as the proposed project being nice and looking good etc. Yes, its a beautiful building, designed by a world renowned architect. It was delivered to us in a very undemocratic fashion. No neighborhood hearings, no detailed presentation, just a quick take it or leave it meeting. At this meeting, the advisory council voted overwhelmingly, at a very crowded meeting, to leave it. It is simply not what we have been working for and trying to accomplish at this park. There is a very small amount of open and clear green space left at this park after all of the robust development in the park and the immediate area is finished. Let me explain. DeVry is building a multi story nursing school right across the street. Immediately north of there, the CPD and the Chicago Cubs are building a regulation sized baseball STADIUM, which will take up an additional acre of the park on the east side of Rockwell. Across the river, there is a six story new construction building right on the river bank. Now, we are building a multi story glass and steel structure - a boat warehouse which will service mostly private clubs, in the heart of a public park. I am afraid that much of the tranquil feel of an urban oasis is drifting away, swallowed by the construction of numerous buildings, and activities which will require much more parking than exists in the area. The plan which we have devised over several years and planned out working with the CPD and elected officials is being undermined by the forces at play.
The point of the assertion that the boathouse will function as a warehouse is simple. Most of the craft will not be used on the river at the same time. Valuable green space is a poor choice of location for storing boats owned by private clubs, which will use their own boats at different times? Whether they are used at Clark Park or somewhere else is somewhat immaterial. 50 boats on the river at the same time, as I said, I do not claim to be a rowing authority - seems unlikely. We have been presented with no operational information - another reason for our opposing what is being touted as a "done deal". Please correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think I am. And, most definitely there would be a conflict with a canoe and kayak vendor - please come over and see how everything must be staged for this operation to work properly - the two would have much trouble co - existing and very similar hours of operation during the boating season, no doubt. Finally, the building is not what the neighborhood has been asking for - 1) bathrooms for hundreds of people biking, playing soccer, walking dogs, canoeing at the park etc. 2) a water source for feeding the hundreds of plants and the multiple gardens installed by volunteers, now non - existent. 3) removal of the unsightly metal boxes off the riverbank currently housing the canoe and kayak vendor. 4) removal of the unsightly trailer with an unsafe generator roaring next to it. 5) introduction of electricity into the park for events. 6) bike rental area. The Boat warehouse, rowing facility, not something that will be used by the community, is a beautiful design that should be installed at one of numerous other public or private sites available along the river - many of which would really welcome it. We would like what was originally promised to us, a compact one story boathouse at Clark Park for the purposes described above.
As to the question about the pedestrian walkway across the river, which was proposed by the advisory council and which has appeared in all of the private and city documents discussing the development of the river front trail - the giant rowing facility will be blocking its location. The pedestrian walkway, which could also be used by bikes, is and was a great idea. It would relieve parking pressure at the park for sure and open up the park to thousands of people who live right across the river. Also, it would add a sense of elegance, beauty, and grandeur to the park. Another reason that this proposal does not make sense, but the smaller, more utilitarian building(s) would.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I thought I would share an example of a rowing club and their "boat warehouse" in milwaukee.
http://www.milwaukeerowingclub.org/
Here is information about other chicago clubs
the lincoln park club
Chicago river rowing
The cost of membership to these clubs is between $200-$400 annually, this is a very reasonable rate to cover the costs of storing said boats, I would be curious to see the fiscal agreements between whatever club gains access to the boat house and the park district. Even if the local schools are not direct sponsors of the programs, many similar clubs off youth programs at very reasonable rates. This is an excellent opportunity for Chicago high school students to excel at a sport that has a lot of scholarship opportunities (especially for women) and can help them make connections and network in a different social circle.
While I am not fully in favor of the proposed rowing facilities, until I have more information on the funding and detailed plans I cannot make an informed decision to openly oppose something I think could add significant value to the city.
I'm am not sure why builing one joint use building instead of 2 seperate buildings on a barren lot in the park is "less green". One building would mean fewer overall materials, and a total smaller area than 2 seperate buildings. Not to mention to additional cost and work involved with adding another river access point.
If you are curios as to how much dock time that such groups take up, I would suggest that you spend an afternoon at the lincoln park lagoon and observe the dock traffic patterns there. The docking needs of a rowing club on the river would be very similar. I do not see how this would significantly impede the kayak/canoe access. As long as an appropriate amount of the space is dedicated to the kayak/conoe rental and washroom facilities I am also not sure why it is important that rowing storage would be a greater percent of the total space.
The "garden" that is being referred to is the series of bike dirt jump and pump track (which I personally enjoy) that is located in the woods next to the proposed facilities. It would not be removed with either of the current proposals.
As a cyclist (and XC skier in that park) and resident of roscoe village, I am excited that this park will be developed with full facilities. I am glad that I am now informed on the future of this park, I see this as an opportunity for more people to enjoy the group sport of rowing. I also enjoy the river and am also interested in ensure the continued access of kayaks and canoes, and as long as that is maintained, than I do not see a reason to oppose this plan.
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It looks like the Milwaukee Rowing Club has an ample body of water to support their sport. The Chicago River at the Clark Park canoe launch is approximately 40 ft. wide, give or take a foot.
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Permalink Reply by Tim S on
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Hello Bill's,
Thank you for coming here to actually discuss this unlike a few who have done a grave disservice to your cause and had it not been the initial twisting of reality on Yelp I must say I would not have really paid attention to this. I only wanted to get the real story to see if it was a worthy project, and the more I see the more I like it.
1. Native Garden at CP in danger of becoming a parking lot - FALSE http://www.yelp.com/topic/chicago-native-garden-at-clark-park-in-da...
2. Help Save the Garden Dirt Jumps - There is a proposition to turn Clark Park into a private boatyard. Please sign this petition and spread the word. - FALSE - http://cambr.org/SMF/index.php?topic=21930.0 - generated 11 signatures, at least one (A moderator at CAMBR) has changed their stance and publicly stated so in the thread.
3. and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete - FALSE spread on Yelp, CAMBR and the change.org petition
There have been others but those are the big 3 I believe.
I may show up at your next meeting to see more of the plans because when I play with your original plans for the multi-unit set up at the South end of the park it takes up almost as much space it is just a different orientation. It almost looks like it has the same amount of concrete apron that leads into the Gardens. Your proposal seems to be more of a threat to the BMX'rs. In fact they propose the removal of the track and reinstalling it a little farther south. Seems that tearing out an exsisting structure to move it a mere 100 or so ft to the south in the forest is more destructive to the native land that putting up the boat house in open space.
You have mentioned that the CPD is going to put in a base ball stadium north of the Park, all I can see is a proposal for one east of the park and immediately south of the Lane Tech stadium which seems like a logical place. Re the Nursing School, fantastic that DeVry is committed to staying in the neighbourhood and both will be attracting far more people than the proposed boat house.
and finally to Lorraine - Your new mention (tkx bbry) of the narrowness of the river. It is not a problem, my University held a regatta every year on a narrow body of water where the boats raced in heats and competed in time trials http://www.headofthetrent.ca/course_map.html As you can see the course they race narrows significantly and it does not interfere with the present regatta. Over 50 universities and clubs competing with an estimated 1,200 athletes participating over the course of the day — making Head of the Trent the largest single day regatta in North America.
Happy to see a real conversation taking place rather than knee jerk reactions to half truths and lies.
PS - Regarding the picture being used to garner support. It does not show the real scope of the project from the angle shown. Both from a orientation blocking the ample space beyond to the road and the missing images of Lane Tech & Stadium to give it a scale. If you have to be deceitful in order to back up your "side" your side looses some serious credibility.
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I'm not sure where you're getting that number, the river is around 120-150 feet wide in that area.
bridge distance
lorraine reder said:It looks like the Milwaukee Rowing Club has an ample body of water to support their sport. The Chicago River at the Clark Park canoe launch is approximately 40 ft. wide, give or take a foot.
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Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on
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An architectural solution to this problem could be: build the boathouse mostly underground. Millennium Park sits on top of a hidden parking garage and train tracks. There's no reason Clark Park couldn't sit comfortably on an underground boat storage facility and indoor rowing tank, with possibly a river bank berm above (new sledding hill in the winter), open to the river but fully planted overhead, with only a small entrance above.
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