Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by djm on July 26, 2013 at 6:56am

I doubt a traffic light would work well given the behavior of both bicycles and cars that Ive witnessed at the LFP traffic signal at North Avenue Beach. 

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Permalink Reply by Jason W on July 26, 2013 at 6:59am

"a simple over- or underpass" is many millions of dollars and I see a lot more than that in the plan.

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Permalink Reply by Eli on July 26, 2013 at 8:23am

That's true of the North Shore Channel Trail underpasses but the North Branch Trail includes overpasses where there is no existing bridge structure at all to cross streets (not the river), e.g., where it crosses Oakton.

Of course it would cost money to add overpasses to the Lakefront Trail--I'm not sure why people are pointing that out as though it is supposed to be a revelation. But I don't think the cost would be as high as the numbers being tossed around here. The proposed North Shore Channel Trail bridge over the river around Lincoln has been estimated to cost between $1 and $2 million, and that's a bit more involved than what is being discussed since it involves some rerouting of the trail itself. Meanwhile a quick glance at the 2013 Chicago budget shows that it includes over $30 million in capital improvements alone to the LFT--not including operating expenses and general parks department budget.

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Permalink Reply by Jason W on July 26, 2013 at 8:27am

So you are talking about a bike/multi use trail over a road, and comparing it to an 8 lane highway overpass? I imagine it would cost many times more for an 8 lane overpass.

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Permalink Reply by Eli on July 26, 2013 at 8:32am

No, I have never said anything at all about an 8 lane highway overpass. Perhaps I was unclear in my original message. I am would like to see Montrose Avenue (in particular, and the three other similar north side uncontrolled trail crossings) stay at the same grade, with the LFT passing either over or under it.

None of the four streets that cross the LFT that have been discussed here--Wilson, Lawrence, Monstrose, and Foster--have 8 lanes.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on July 26, 2013 at 8:50am

That intersection is a joke. There is no red/green light for the LFT, only a walk sign that is not terribly visible and almost always on "do not walk", even when there are no cars. If they want to fix that, install a real red/green light for trail users. When I am riding my bike, I am usually not looking for walk signs, but for traffic lights.

djm said:

I doubt a traffic light would work well given the behavior of both bicycles and cars that Ive witnessed at the LFP traffic signal at North Avenue Beach. 

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Permalink Reply by Davo on July 26, 2013 at 9:07am

A over/underpass for the trail would suck for people trying to access it that were not on the trail already. But I suppose you could alter your route to address it. I still think that the over/underpass solution would cost too much and take too long vs a traffic light type of idea.

Eli said:

No, I have never said anything at all about an 8 lane highway overpass. Perhaps I was unclear in my original message. I am would like to see Montrose Avenue (in particular, and the three other similar north side uncontrolled trail crossings) stay at the same grade, with the LFT passing either over or under it.

None of the four streets that cross the LFT that have been discussed here--Wilson, Lawrence, Monstrose, and Foster--have 8 lanes.

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Permalink Reply by pceasy on July 26, 2013 at 9:56am

Put signs at all crossings instructing drivers that bicyclists and pedestrians always have the right of way. Close 2 of the 4 entrances, Wilson and Lawrence and open them only on busy beach days. 

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Permalink Reply by Michelle S on July 28, 2013 at 3:20pm

Redefine the Drive has a website with lots of information on it, including why this project is needed, the geographic scope, the timeline, etc.  I encourage everyone to attend the meetings, if possible, or provide comments through yet-to-be-specified ways, and generally get involved. Now's the time to speak up and make sure that LSD becomes less of a barrier to the lake and the lakefront trail.

www.northlakeshoredrive.org

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Permalink Reply by Gene Tenner on July 29, 2013 at 4:53am

From today's Chicago Tribune online:

Experts expected to steer Lake Shore Drive away from being a superhighway Public input will help shape function of crucial road, bridges, tunnels and pathways

A long-planned transformation of North Lake Shore Drive is entering a new phase, as city and state planners look to cull ideas from the public on how best to serve the tens of thousands who use the crucial roadway every day.

Overhauling the 7-mile stretch likely will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, and work probably won't start for at least five years, but such input is expected to help shape the project that aims to balance the thoroughfare's origins in the early 1900s as "a boulevard through a park" and one that will meet the changing needs of those who drive, ride, walk and run along it for years to come.

Public meetings are set to start next week, but civic groups are already weighing in with proposals to lower the speed limit, accommodate quicker transit trips via bus-only lanes, incorporate design standards that are compatible with city boulevards rather than highways and, among the top priorities, improve lakefront access.

Transportation authorities as well say they are studying bold concepts like expanding the shoreline near the downtown beaches to help ease overcrowding on the lakefront trail and alleviate flooding on the roadway from high waves during stormy weather.

For years the drive has been treated as an expressway by many drivers, despite speed limits that are lower than along most sections of interstate highways and tightly spaced entrance and exit ramps where weaving maneuvers contribute to an average of three crashes a day north of the downtown area, according to accident data.

Thousands of people each day also use the parks and lakefront trail, and accessibility and safety problems abound. Many of the 22 pedestrian underpasses are in poor condition and bridges and tunnels do not meet requirements under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

In addition, accidents and near misses are a daily occurrence on the trail system due to the chaotic logjam of walkers, runners, cyclists and others trying to share the same space.

"I've been hurt so many times in crashes that, except for very early in the morning, I won't ride my bike on the lakefront anymore," said Tim Jacoby, 39, of Rogers Park, who when he moved to Chicago about 10 years ago from Milwaukee regularly commuted by bicycle to his job in the Loop.

Over the next five to eight years, countless hours and hundreds of millions of dollars will be invested in reshaping the historic lakefront road between Hollywood Avenue at its northern end and Grand Avenue to the south.

North Lake Shore Drive is between 60 and 80 years old in different sections, and overall it is reaching the end of its useful life, according to transportation officials with the city and the state.

South Lake Shore Drive was rebuilt in 2001-05, from 23rd to 67th streets.

The official name given to the North Lake Shore Drive redesign and reconstruction project offers promise: "Redefine the Drive." It is a joint project by the Illinois and Chicago departments of transportation.

"The really big part of this early public outreach effort is helping us to find what the needs are among transit, bike, pedestrian, park access and highway," said John Baczek, project and environmental studies section chief at IDOT.

Today's Lake Shore Drive doesn't meet the needs of everyone who uses the lakefront, said Lee Crandell, director of campaigns at the Active Transportation Alliance, which is part of a coalition of civic groups advocating major changes.

"Coming out of the public meetings that will be held, we want IDOT and CDOT to adopt an aggressive mission that makes the road more people-friendly and doesn't just serve faster traffic," Crandell said.

Three preliminary public meetings on the project design are set for Aug. 6-8.

Seven task forces, which will include public input, will also be established during the planning phases, and the task forces will continue to be involved in the process through 2016, when more public hearings will be held and IDOT is expected to select a final design, officials said.

Construction could begin as early as 2018 or 2019, depending on funding, officials said. The cost is expected to total in the hundreds of millions of dollars, but estimates will not be made until the design is well underway, Baczek said.

So far, more than $19 million has been budgeted, using state funding, for preliminary design work, officials said.

Fifteen civic groups are making joint recommendations for the reconstruction project that they say are intended to help make Chicago a more livable city by reducing barriers between neighborhoods and the lakefront.

Proposals in the platform include reducing the drive's maximum speed limit to 35 mph with no increase in the number of lanes; introducing bus-only lanes on North Lake Shore Drive and possibly expanding the city's experiment with bus rapid transit to the drive; building boardwalks along beaches and a new path on the lakefront trail to separate different types of trail users, such as cyclists and walkers; and increasing green space, especially between Ohio Street and North Avenue, and widening lakefront access points while also reducing conflict points between cars and trail users.

"We drafted the statement in a way that does not make specific design recommendations," said Tim Jeffries, director of planning and policy at Friends of the Parks. "We want to see the process include as many opinions as possible so that the result is improving the road and livability without sacrificing the drive's utility as a transportation corridor."

Daily traffic along North Lake Shore Drive ranges from about 70,000 to 155,000 vehicles, depending on the section, according to IDOT.

Transportation engineers as well as advocates for people who prefer to ride mass transit or cycle or who enjoy walking, running or skating along the lakefront all seem to agree that it's time to hit the brakes on Lake Shore Drive's slide toward becoming a superhighway.

About 70,000 transit commuters using nine CTA bus routes travel on North Lake Shore Drive each weekday, and the lakefront trails are used by more than 25,000 people daily, IDOT said.

The north section also ranks among the top 5 percent of roadways in the state for serious injury-causing crashes, according to IDOT statistics. An average of three crashes a day, or more than 1,100 annually, has occurred over the last five years, IDOT said.

Officials at IDOT and CDOT have previously provided ideas that are on their priority list for reconstruction. They include adding lakefill to reconfigure the Oak Street curve to prevent spinouts and crashes; improving traffic flow at pinch points, such as the Hollywood and Belmont Avenue exits, where traffic frequently backs up; and possibly consolidating some of the ramps to reduce dangerous merge and weaving patterns, said Luann Hamilton, CDOT deputy commissioner. New ramps elsewhere might also be added, she said.

But as the preliminary engineering and environmental assessment process kicks off, officials are now saying that they will look at many options to solve the complex problems.

Those options could include dedicated lanes for CTA buses and bypass lanes on the ramps to give buses priority to exit the drive; and new lakefront paths that provide safer, more comfortable options for both recreational users as well as bicycling commuters who are in a hurry, officials said.

"We won't pre-determine what the solutions will be," Hamilton said. "There are certainly going to be folks who already know what they want to see out there, but we need to take a neutral position and let the process unfold."

From the perspective of the civic groups, Chrissy Mancini Nichols, a director at the Metropolitan Planning Council, said: "The No. 1 thing we can do is to stop the movement toward a superhighway. This is about livability and attracting more economic growth to our neighborhoods."

Contact Getting Around at jhilkevitch@tribune.com or c/o the Chicago Tribune, 435 N. Michigan Ave., Chicago, IL 60611; on Twitter @jhilkevitch; and at facebook.com/jhilkevitch. Read recent columns at chicagotribune.com/gettingaround.

North Lake Shore Drive public meeting schedule

Three public meetings will be held about how to improve travel on North Lake Shore Drive and enhance access to the lakefront. Each meeting will be held from 6 to 8 p.m.:

On Aug. 6 at Gill Park, third-floor meeting room, 825 W. Sheridan Road

On Aug. 7 in the atrium of Truman College, 1145 W. Wilson Ave.

On Aug. 8 in the South Gallery of the Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum, 2340 N. Cannon Drive

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/ct-met-getting-...

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Permalink Reply by Shaun Jacobsen on July 30, 2013 at 2:53pm

Re: those intersections starting at Montrose:

Wilson should be gone away with as an exit completely. There's three exits in a half mile. The others should just terminate at the LFT (like at Belmont) and the roads there into the park should go away, too. So much cheap parking there leads to all those people having to exit LSD and cause traffic in the first place. There's so many roads and parking spots in that park.

My "big idea," since we all have them, for LSD is that it becomes a boulevard. It's just an idea. I'm not an engineer. I don't know how they'd do it but it would be so much better with more stop lights, slower traffic, and less tunnels for pedestrians to use.

I think of the lakefront drive in Milwaukee as a good example. Relatively slow by design, opportunities to cross, and not too intrusive and obstructive like LSD is now. They did say they wanted to limit the speed to 35 by design, right? You aren't going to do that keeping it like it is now.

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Permalink Reply by pceasy on July 30, 2013 at 4:46pm

I agree. Way too many exits between Montrose and Foster. But this I don't quite understand from the article "New ramps elsewhere might also be added, she said." More ramps? Where? 

Shaun Jacobsen said:

Re: those intersections starting at Montrose:

Wilson should be gone away with as an exit completely. There's three exits in a half mile. The others should just terminate at the LFT (like at Belmont) and the roads there into the park should go away, too. So much cheap parking there leads to all those people having to exit LSD and cause traffic in the first place. There's so many roads and parking spots in that park.

My "big idea," since we all have them, for LSD is that it becomes a boulevard. It's just an idea. I'm not an engineer. I don't know how they'd do it but it would be so much better with more stop lights, slower traffic, and less tunnels for pedestrians to use.

I think of the lakefront drive in Milwaukee as a good example. Relatively slow by design, opportunities to cross, and not too intrusive and obstructive like LSD is now. They did say they wanted to limit the speed to 35 by design, right? You aren't going to do that keeping it like it is now.

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