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"So I guess the myth that we apparently have held out that this is some kind of a great plan to create education and a plan to dissuade people from violating the law is more a myth than anything else," Burke said. "It's a money machine, that's all. Period," he added.http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_st/2010/03/ald-burke-red-...
The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
I thought the point of the 3-second yellow was that if you are traveling at or below the speed limit, you should be able to either make it through the light, or safely slow down and stop. If you're speeding, you don't have time to stop OR to get through the light before it changes to red.
David Lieb said:I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
The length of the yellow light is proportionate to the speed limit. I just do not get this whole thing. If you saw a squad car at the intersection you would NEVER accelerate into the intersection on yellow. Why complain about a method of law enforcement that does it's job without prejudice?
heather said:I thought the point of the 3-second yellow was that if you are traveling at or below the speed limit, you should be able to either make it through the light, or safely slow down and stop. If you're speeding, you don't have time to stop OR to get through the light before it changes to red.
David Lieb said:I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
Official response from Active Trans: Red light cameras only record those that break the law. They do not record everyone who enters an intersection -- just those who enter them illegally.
Yellow proportional to speed limit? What are you basing that on? If you're going only by the video, 35 to 40 is not the same proportion as 3 to 4.5. Not even close.
The 3 second yellow is the issue - the cameras only the irritant. Why such a short yellow? REVENUE. It's my contention that 1. a longer yellow would reduce "red light runs", creating a safer intersection, and 2. that making decisions on the time of the light based on REVENUE as opposed to SAFETY is WRONG and UNJUST.
There are people out there who have done math and physics on the issue - but I'll spare you, except for this nugget - the commonly used reaction time is 1.5 seconds (.75 sec to process yellow + .75 to put foot on brake) and that would leave 1.5 seconds to brake from 35 to stop in worst case scenario. Is that enough time? I don't think so.
And the assumption that I accelerated into the yellow (or that I'm type A (HA!), or any number of other assumptions made here) is incorrect (despite jokes to the contrary).
I think that's about as clearly as I can state my case.
Michael A said:The length of the yellow light is proportionate to the speed limit. I just do not get this whole thing. If you saw a squad car at the intersection you would NEVER accelerate into the intersection on yellow. Why complain about a method of law enforcement that does it's job without prejudice?
heather said:I thought the point of the 3-second yellow was that if you are traveling at or below the speed limit, you should be able to either make it through the light, or safely slow down and stop. If you're speeding, you don't have time to stop OR to get through the light before it changes to red.
David Lieb said:I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
Joe,
the implication being that all Chicago yellows are inappropriately short. Surely they're all different lengths for different situations and locations.
So, the camera doesn't show when cars are turning?The problem is the camera is a still camera and there is no way to differentiate between rolling the light and a legal right turn on red.
If you're following so closely that you can't see traffic signals, you're breaking the law. If you're driving too fast for the conditions, you're breaking the law. The "three second rule" may be fine in good weather, but not when it's snowing.I got dinged for one when I got caught behind a large panel truck that I couldn't see beyond. It was snowing, and he was going about 20 mph before accelerating at the intersection (Western and Irving Park). I was following at a 3 second distance, and only after he got out ahead of me could I see the stale yellow. I felt that I would have lost control of my car had I tried to panic stop at that time, so I made eye contact with the driver in opposing left hand turn lane and went through.
Okay, so you had your due process and it didn't go your way. If you really did get a bum rap, then I feel bad for you. But that anecdote doesn't convince me that the entire traffic regulation and enforcement system should be thrown out. Am I surprised that the judge dismissed your argument that the problem was that the traffic signal was "insufficient" for you to be able to stop? No. More to the point, if you had been issued a ticket by a cop, would you have fared any better in court?I went in for a hearing and argued for the conditions, and for the insufficient (3 second) yellow length per national traffic engineering guidelines for that intersection. My appeal was denied.
Yeah, and you know what else I can see clearly? Almost every time a light turns red, at least two drivers gun it and blatantly run the light when they could have easily stopped. And most of the time, those drivers were already speeding. How do you propose we change this behavior?This is demonstrably false. The video cameras are rolling well before the light turns red, and you can see vehicles driving through the intersection in a fully legal fashion. The video snippet I was forwarded for my infraction showed this clearly.
No, you'll still have those same cars running the "orange" lights.Make all the yellows 4.5 seconds and keep your cameras and I'll shut up.
No, you'll still have those same cars running the "orange" lights.Make all the yellows 4.5 seconds and keep your cameras and I'll shut up.
See, while I feel bad for anyone who's gotten a bum rap for running a red light, I feel much worse for people who are killed because drivers are treating this like a f***ing game. One pedestrian is killed by a car every single week in the City of Chicago, on average. If I have to choose whether to err on the side of letting a few people get traffic tickets or letting more people die, it's no contest. If you want to think of it as an extra little driving tax, that's okay by me; whatever it takes to get drivers to slow down and stop driving recklessly and killing so many people.
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