Red Light Cameras - Pro or No?

I've noticed that our friends at the ATA have become quite vocal in support of red light cameras.  I wonder if camera-love is widespread among their membership base (in which I'm included).  I always ride when I'm not working, but I have to drive on the clock, and I've been nailed twice.  Kinda rubs me the wrong way, especially because Chicago seems to have the shortest yellows I've ever seen.  Opinions?  
 

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Permalink Reply by Dan Korn on March 2, 2010 at 9:03pm
notoriousDUG said:
I hate the cameras, they often get triggered by legal right turns on red and eliminate the judgment of an actual person writing the ticket.
That's why you get a chance to go to Traffic Court and contest the ticket to an actual judge. It's exactly the same as when a cop writes a ticket.
caitlin eleanor field said:
I HATE THEM. I have gotten 3 red light tickets over the course of 2 months....this was earlier this year, seeing as how I am now carless. They are so ridiculous, because they don't account for situations in which you have no choice, get stuck trying to make a left turn, etc.
Again, did you contest the tickets in traffic court? Did you explain the situation to the judge?

If anything, I would think that people who are wrongly accused of running red lights would appreciate having photographic evidence, instead of it just being the cop's word against theirs.

Kudos to the ATA for taking this stance!
Permalink Reply by Joe TV on March 2, 2010 at 10:16pm
So how short is too short for a yellow light?

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 3, 2010 at 3:42am
Um, I think you need to read my posts again, I'm the one who pointed out what you just said...

Congratulations on scoring 100% on the most basic written test the DMV offers, go take the CDL tests and then let me know how well you think you know the rules of the road right now.

mattbikes1 said:
I beg to differ. You can not legally enter an intersection until it is clear. Jessie White's most recent literature specifies this quite clearly. I had to take the test to get my Illinois license last fall and got 100% after thoroughly studying the driver's rules of the road for IL.

notoriousDUG said:
Technically no but it is common practice; if you are sitting there when the light turns and somebody takes off and runs into you when followed to the letter of the law you are in the wrong.
Trust me on this one, I have gotten the ticket to prove it.
Jessica said:
Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?

And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 3, 2010 at 3:45am
You are matching the RPMs of the gears in the transmission, on newer cars and small trucks you can just leave the clutch in because they do it automatically but on large trucks and old vehicles you have to double clutch and match the speeds of the gears in the trans manually.

Double clutching, in the modern world, only really applies to truck drivers and in all reality truck drivers don't use the clutch to shift from gear to gear unless they are taking a driving test.

H3N3 said:
So you're basically doing it when you're letting the RPMs come down to shift into a lower gear?
Why wouldn't you just hold the pedal in?

notoriousDUG said:
Double clutching is done to match the speed of the gear clusters inside of the transmission when you shift preventing the gears from grinding into each other. The practice is not needed in most modern 'syncromesh' manual transmissions because they use syncros to run the gear you are shifting into to up to a matching speed. It is still needed in some large truck transmissions because they are not synchronized but other then thatif you are driving something made after about the mid 50's it is not a necessity.

H3N3 said:
I still don't quite get it-- why would you "double clutch?"
It sounds like what you're calling "power-shifting" is what I've always heard called downshifting.
Supposed to be good for the engine as it wears the rings/bearings more evenly than always being torqued in one direction.

Jessica said:
Double clutching is putting the clutch in - shift to neutral - let clutch out - reengage clutch (or disengage... are we talking pedal, or what's actually happening? lol), shift into gear.

You're not supposed to double clutch in cars with syncros... at least not the new ones. I dunno... I got lucky with my car. I've been violently powershifting for over 3 years now... it hasn't broken yet. There's a shimmy in my rear end though... I'm sure that's going soon. (typical LS1 though...)

Again, edited to add that 'don't double clutch' has been taught to me by my way-more-into-cars-than-me buddies.
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 3, 2010 at 3:46am
The problem is the camera is a still camera and there is no way to differentiate between rolling the light and a legal right turn on red.

Dan Korn said:
notoriousDUG said:
I hate the cameras, they often get triggered by legal right turns on red and eliminate the judgment of an actual person writing the ticket.
That's why you get a chance to go to Traffic Court and contest the ticket to an actual judge. It's exactly the same as when a cop writes a ticket.
caitlin eleanor field said:
I HATE THEM. I have gotten 3 red light tickets over the course of 2 months....this was earlier this year, seeing as how I am now carless. They are so ridiculous, because they don't account for situations in which you have no choice, get stuck trying to make a left turn, etc.
Again, did you contest the tickets in traffic court? Did you explain the situation to the judge?

If anything, I would think that people who are wrongly accused of running red lights would appreciate having photographic evidence, instead of it just being the cop's word against theirs.

Kudos to the ATA for taking this stance!
Permalink Reply by Davo on March 3, 2010 at 8:21am
You are not supposed to shift while in the middle of an intersection.

Lionel Senderowicz said:
replacing a clutch is more expensive than replacing brakes <3 :)

an article from the Straight dope:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1377/to-slow-a-stick-shift...

Jessica said:
Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?
And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...
Permalink Reply by David Lieb on March 3, 2010 at 8:34am
IMHO they are mere revenue generators. Most of the tickets are issued for "right on red" without some arcane unknown amount of a stop, hardly a hazardous situation. I applaud Schaumburg for ripping the things out.

A friend of mine who works for a police department got one of these in Chicago a couple years ago... problem was that the photo showed his vehicle proceeding through an intersection with a GREEN light. He contested it (obviously) and he said that you would not believe how hard it was to find someone who could look at the photo and say that there was no infraction. You are considered guilty the moment the photo is mailed out.

Also, I see a LOT of flashes when there is no infraction at the ones near me. Someone pulls up to the line and stops, Flash. They wait and turn right on red, Flash Flash. I am sure that not all of them are issued tickets.
Permalink Reply by Joe TV on March 3, 2010 at 8:41am
Did you see the Trib today?

Alderman Ed Burke:
"So I guess the myth that we apparently have held out that this is some kind of a great plan to create education and a plan to dissuade people from violating the law is more a myth than anything else," Burke said. "It's a money machine, that's all. Period," he added.
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_st/2010/03/ald-burke-red-...

And allow me to repost my awesome video for those who haven't yet seen it. I'm in love with it.

Permalink Reply by David Lieb on March 3, 2010 at 9:03am
I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
Permalink Reply by Joe TV on March 3, 2010 at 9:05am
Well I think it's B.S.! Especially when you get a camera involved.

David Lieb said:
The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
Permalink Reply by heather s on March 3, 2010 at 2:17pm
I thought the point of the 3-second yellow was that if you are traveling at or below the speed limit, you should be able to either make it through the light, or safely slow down and stop. If you're speeding, you don't have time to stop OR to get through the light before it changes to red.

David Lieb said:
I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)
Permalink Reply by Michael A on March 3, 2010 at 2:27pm
The length of the yellow light is proportionate to the speed limit. I just do not get this whole thing. If you saw a squad car at the intersection you would NEVER accelerate into the intersection on yellow. Why complain about a method of law enforcement that does it's job without prejudice?

heather said:
I thought the point of the 3-second yellow was that if you are traveling at or below the speed limit, you should be able to either make it through the light, or safely slow down and stop. If you're speeding, you don't have time to stop OR to get through the light before it changes to red.

David Lieb said:
I will say that several years ago I got a ticket for a red light infraction on Elston.
This was before there were any red light cameras in Chicagoland. The cop specifically mentioned the yellow as being a 3-second yellow. It isn't something they changed for the sake of the red light cameras, it is something put in place long since to trip up the non-locals ;-)

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