Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 22, 2012 at 5:07am

If you know the difference why make a statement that makes it seem like they are the same thing?

So I am an elitist?  Me the guy who rides bikes rescued from the trash and/or built out of others throw away parts is an elitist, that's a good one.  I am so far the opposite of a bicycle elitist I can't even wrap my mind around just how wrong that implication is...  Now I am going to lay out a few things and I would like you, C.R. to respond to them in kind, not just make a general complaint.

1. I do not, ever, refuse to work on any bike.  However, I will tell people the truth about what they have and it's actual value.  Is that wrong?  Is it wrong to recommend people go to another shop entirly because they can get a better bike for the cost of what the total repair bill for theirs will be?  Is it wrong to, if it is in their budget, recommend a new bike from our shop instead of continuing to fix a rode out bike that is not worth it?

2. Where do you get the sensationalistic idea that anyone at any shop is recommending a $1200 dollar bike in lieu of a headset replacement?  If somebody has a bike worth it I am going to put an headset in it every time because, deep down, I am anti-consumer culture and want people to buy as little as possible but if the headset and other issues with their bike exceed the cost of a used bike of higher quality I am going to recommend that; they still want to spend the money on the repair, fine I can do it knowing I tried to steer them to the best value.

3. How can you both claim to 'understand bicycle commuting' but still refer to cycling as a 'frivolous luxury?'  Do you not get that those are opposing statements.  Oh, and for the record I am not a 'bicycle commuter' I am a 'transportive cyclist' I do not just bike to get to and from work from time to time; I ride my bike for everything I do, every day, all year long.

4. I have never said anything bad about Bikes Direct bikes, they are ok quality and they stand behind their product.  Most of the issues I see with them come from them having so-so wheels and them not being prepped well when the bike is built or the owner messing them up building them.  Other online bikes I can not say anything good about; I have seen bikes come with the fork blades welded on 1/2" off...  My point on any bike you buy online for cheap is that it can be a decent bike if it is built well.  I recommend a bike from a bike shop because after the cost of it being built properly you are pretty close to the cost of a bike from a bike shop but without the local business to stand behind the bike; is a year of free service on the bike and knowing it is built properly not worth a couple hundred extra on something you are going to rely on as transportation?

5. Yes, a good bike mechanic can make and crappy bike work well, for awhile.  Thing is it is not going to last and the bike itself is heavy and has very little value; is it worth putting money into something that is never going to be worth what you put into it or preform as well as a slightly more expensive bike?  Is it doing anyone any good to keep fixing a bike that sucks to ride?

Whatever, I expect to see very little in response form you because you are doing what everyone who has an opinion but nothing to bake it up with does.  You have failed to address things directly and declared yourself to be done with the conversation, bravo sir, way to stand behind your words.

C.R. said:

I do understand that D/A is a component tier and SRAM is a brand..  What I don't understand is how you are so inept that you're unable to grasp and employ the overall concept I implied.  I understand the difference between fixed, and single speed.  For brevity sake, I'm not going to elaborate on each post on what I do know or exactly what the OP need to do, for the simple fact that I've been trying to make points with concepts, hoping it wasn't over heads..  Regardless, this very well could be a "if the shoe fits" scenario, and you certainly are getting your little ego stroked by letting me know that SRAM and Shimano are brands. 

I do understand commuting by bicycle. I understand taking a bike with you to extend ones reach to areas that are harder to go to outside of public trans. I too have a trailer that I use to carry big stuff..  I also know that if folks are ever waiting in line for flour again, rather than pay 1200 for a new bike, they are going to figure out who can get their bike up and going for cheap.  I'm sure the bike shop has the best intent when they decide they would rather not order a headset, and suggest someone purchase a new bike.  You are part of the service industry..  I'm not making the rules, get mad at me all you like, it won't change anything.  Our banking system isn't backed by anything anymore, no gold standard.  So that gives you the option to charge what I consider exorbitant prices. 

Again, if anything I'm not anti-local bike shop.  If you can't accept that I'm pro value, then maybe it would help you understand if I say I'm anti-people-like-you.  The OP said he bought a bike online, which leads me to assume it's either a Nashbar bike or a Bikes Direct bike.  In such case, there aren't so many differences between most of the local bike shop bikes, and the bikes coming from these online wholesalers.  What local bike shops are doing is purchasing a large number from these wholesalers at a discount and then putting them together with components in store.  The customer who purchases from these online wholesalers are just skipping the middle man (that's you FYI).  You aren't custom building bikes here, e.g. Rodriguez cycles.  Or if you are, forgive me for being ingorant, but again, I think you're just be a pretentious prick.  I think the OP really needs to think twice about stopping by your shop, as there are plenty out there that are willing to service a chinese or taiwanese bike.  I'm betting that you are the shop that rotates the wheel while it's still on the bike, "looks good to go".. 

I'm not sure when all this WalMart/ Target bikes was thrown into the mix.  He said he bought a bike online.  Nevertheless a good bike mech will be able to look at what it takes to get the bike running again, even if it's a WalMart Huffy.  You can denigrate people who shop at wal mart all you want, that's what most elitists do, what most good bike mechanics do is assess what can be done for a customer to get them up an going.  You can also insult me however you like, but ultimately your inability to understand these trivial concepts is why I think I would avoid your shop.  I think I've threadjacked enough, and am checking out of this one.  To the OP, there are plenty of options out there.

Permalink Reply by C.R. on April 22, 2012 at 5:59am

Comparing the work of an electrician is and a bike mechanic isn't realistic.  Electricity is really close to being a need; to cook food on my stove, to power my computer, to take a hot shower, to do some writing at night.  Businesses need their electricity to work.  People enjoy riding their bikes, it makes commutes easier, but we will survive if we have to walk an extra amount of time to and from the bus or eL.  Faulty wiring on an electric board in your apartment not only leads to your apartment burning down, but in the city it could burn down your neighbors, blocks, or even the neighborhood.  A bad brake install might cause the rider to get run over, and at worst may cause some traffic accidents or buildup while response teams clean up the mess.  Whoever was run-over might occupy a small blurb on page 23 of the Tribune, and create a financial hardship on the ones left behind.  The reality is that most of us aren't important enough to be missed in a societal sense. 

Next, as I stated in one of my first posts, there are things that I still do have shops do.  Wheels are definitely one of them.  What I said was that there are shops out there that give you a lot of attitude about bringing a different branded bike in, and I prefer to look for shops that don't offer the attitude with the service.  My synopsis is the better shops are in it for the business, and listed a few shops I thought were good.  Some started ranting about the important necessities of a local bike shop cycle, and how there are some big differences between Target bikes and the "special" bikes they sell.  Surprise, that isn't really big news. 

My issue is that decent shops tell you what you can do to get the bike going again.  Other shops tell you what you need to hear to sell you on one of their bikes.  A good bike mechanic is willing to look into fixing the issue, even if it means bending the derailleur cage back instead of suggesting that a new rear mech is warranted.  AFA I'm Concerned, unless you are producing bikes here, you are very replaceable, as all you are really performing is the work of a finishing assembly line.  I would clearly pay the premium for a rod bike, but most LBS (staff in particular) need to be honest about what they are selling.  Why I suggested REI or SmartBikeParts.  They will likely be working on bikes long after the interwebs shut down a lot of these local bike shops unable to figure it out.

Frankly, I'm not really about the customer service.  We are at a strange time in our society, and our economic model is changing, and a lot of businesses are going the way of T-Rex.  Good or bad, the internets, connectivity, and our society is changing.  Ask the staff at a lot of the Chile's..  Where now a little screen has replaced the wait staff.  It's not all bad, I don't have to deal with the waiter who is having a bad day now.  By the same token, I'm not really looking for a great customer experience when I go into a bike shop.  What I want, is my bike to work, not get a half assed job at a premium price.  I could buy a chinese bike made by kids at a highly maked up price from the LBS, or I can pay a slightly marked up price for the same frame, if I'm smart I can ask that they install a better drive train group and have a decent local shop assemble it for me (the ones without the attitude, the ones that ask, hey, why did you buy this bike...). Buying it there is likely still less than what the LBS is offering for the same bike.  Maybe at some point we may end up in a more socialistic system where, everyone is paid a fair and equal wage for work done, and the -for profitness- is taken out of the equation.  Until then, our system is set kind of with checks and balances somewhat, stores online have risen up and have removed the problems, and at some point the reverse will happen.  I suppose that remais to be seen.

Again, places like working bikes in Pilsen I'm all for.  Same with West Town Bikes, even though I haven't utilized their classes yet.  Local bike shops that have a misguided impression of what they are, with the pretentious attitude along with it, well, I'm all about Bikes Direct. 

Permalink Reply by C.R. on April 22, 2012 at 6:39am

You can dumpster dive an still be an elitist.  It's your attitude rather than your resourcefulness. 

1. - There is nothing wrong with telling the customer the value of their bike.  In fact, if someone is bringing in a huffy off the street, I'm fairly sure they probably know that it isn't a carbon fiber frame and superior component group they are riding on.  They are likely riding that bike because it is still economical for them.  A good shop fixes it, and tells them their options (even if its ordering parts online and bringing them in, or in the case of SmartBikeParts, getting you discounted parts cheap).

2. - again, I used lavish numbers to make a point.  It's the concept.  Sorry I didn't clarify that for you.  Realistically, I can get the same parts you can from places like Harris Cyclery, lickbike, or smartbikeparts.  I just don't have the tools to do the specialized work.  It's for sure that this guy doesn't either.  My simple suggestion is that look for someplace that doesn't give you the grief to assemble the bike.

 

3. - Be sour at me all you like.  Commuting, Transportive cyclist, whatever you want to call it.  I try to ride my bike as much as possible also.  The reality is that in the city, there are options outside of a car, or a bicycle.  Walking, Public trans, or ride shares.  You might not like it, but thats the reality in the city.  Biking is a luxury.  If bikes were outlawed tomorrow, you would be sad panda, but the reality is that you would find a different trade, and look for a different form of transportation.  If you lived in the Burbs or rural, a car or a bicycle is a necessity, as the other options aren't necessarily available.

4. - The OP mentioned buying his bike online.  Again, as I stated, this is likely a BD or Nashbar bike.  You added in Huffy and WalMart/Target bikes.  You put them all into the same category.  Anything we have is going to require maintenance if owned long enough.  From older computers, to bicycles.  I personally see the value in a newer bike, lighter frame, better wheels etc.  Same with a new computer..  A good computer shop and sell you new computers and fix the old ones.  Grandma doesn't want to give up her windows 95 machine.  sure a new Macbook Pro would do well, but its not necessary for what she needs. 

5.  - Also addressed in number 4. 

Again, I think that there is value in the shops work.  You tried to insult me and I have no issues insulting you back.  I think a good mechanic will work on grannies machine, or fix that new ipad.  What I tried to explain in my OP. 

I'm out of batteries, so this is my last post for a while.  Regardless, I still think a good mechanic or shop is going to work on whatever. 

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on April 22, 2012 at 7:21am

If it costs me less to ride my bike, and gets me there faster in some cases, how is riding my bike a frivolous luxury? 

Sounds more like all of those other forms of transportation are frivolous luxuries. 

You have obviously never worked, or even spent much time even, in a bike shop because you are assuming a lot about the average customer and their expectations.  Once again with all offense intended you are speaking from what is a very obviously poorly informed position and making a lot of assumptions.  Just curious but what qualifies you to speak at all as an 'expert' on anything bike or bike shop related?

Permalink Reply by Robert Beck on April 22, 2012 at 7:28am

yada, yada, yada!!!!

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on April 22, 2012 at 8:12am

Some of use use our bikes for more than just toys.

Having a reliable, efficient, everyday mode of transportation that is more utilitarian than using public transport is a NEED every bit as much for a bicyclist who uses his bike as their main mode of transportation as it is for a car driver.

Permalink Reply by King CeZar on April 22, 2012 at 3:03pm

Are you trying to build one of these?

Permalink Reply by King CeZar on April 22, 2012 at 3:05pm

All you really need is a monkey wrench, a hammer, and some good ol' pliers, that should def. do the trick.  

Permalink Reply by Zach K on April 23, 2012 at 2:37am

thanks everyone for your suggestions. I had John W come by and help me out and it rides great! A chainlink success story...see you out there.

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