six-dollar gas tax
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Permalink Reply by Joel on
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The problem is that this is the only idea you've consistently put forth in this thread: tax the crap out of gas and let people use grease. I'm saying there isn't enough grease in the world to do it. Also, do you think grease will remain free if demand goes up? Sure, for now that guy gets his fuel for "free" (it still costs something to prepare it for the car). Right now the alternative for the Thai place is to pay to dispose of it, so it makes sense to give it away. What happens when a second person also wants the grease? Time to start selling! Supply can't increase, only demand. A restaurant is only go to use enough oil to cook what they need to cook.
Like I said in a long post that you completely ignored, we need many different solutions. A tax can be a minor part (i.e., much less than what you propose). Used grease is another tiny part. Biodiesel can be another small part.
People are harping on you because you seem clueless of economics and planning. Take the biofuel debacle in the US. We decide to use corn for ethanol -- already a terrible choice from an efficiency perspective -- and grain prices go up. Corn is more valuable as a fuel product than food, so food corn costs more. Corn becomes more profitable than grain X, so people grow less grain X and more corn. The price of grain X now goes up because supply is down. The corn is sold for fuel so there is no balancing effect.
The entire premise of the Face Book group is based on utter ignorance of economics, politics, planning, engineering, and science. I would love to see less pollution, less reliance on oil from a politically unstable region, more bikes, healthier people, etc., but the problem has to be dealt with realistically, and so far I haven't seen any of your realistic ideas -- only short sighted rants.
jillnerkowski said:Joel said:Just for your reference, current demand for diesel in North American and Europe alone is around 490 million tons. The current production of all vegetable oils (for food and fuel) is 110 million tons. So even if we were to reclaim 100% of oil used in cooking (impossible) it is barely a fifth of what is used in two continents -- ignoring the fast growing economies and populations in the world. Sorry, but there simple isn't enough fryer grease to move the world.
jillnerkowski said:
posted greasecar.com with link on my people for 6 dollar gas tax in america facebook page. thanks
nobody said we have to move the whole world with one persons idea, but that site certainly is exciting, imagine driving a car with used vegetable grease!! maybe they don't have to pay for gas at all, taht would certainly motivate people if the gas tax went up to try a grease car. in the profiles of happy customers, one said he gets all his grease from a local thai restaurant. -
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Permalink Reply by S on
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jillnerkowski said:jillnerkowski said:
plus hydrogen and solar powered vehicles, and vw conversions to electric videos- they take the motor out of the cars, and basically just mount some batteries ,plug it in to charge it, and it goes.Joel, I didn't know if you had checked out my facebook page or not http://www.facebook.com/pages/people-for-6-dollar-gas-tax-in-Americ... , on that page I have been collecting alternative options links and photos, that show and describe three wheel electric bicycles and electric minivans, smart cars that have high gas mileage, and vehicles still in the prototype phase, like sega's puma project that is an enclosed two and a half wheel vehicle, capable of riding through city traffic, at speeds similiar to a moped.Solar powered vehicles don't work. Solar radiation doesn't provide enough power to get a car moving for the distances that people need. Hydrogen might work but storage and transportation issues need to be worked out. Also you still need to generate the hydrogen somehow.
The vw conversions can't work the way you think they do. The cars still need a motor to move it, plus the batteries needed to power a vehicle won't fit in the hood, the electronics to control and regulate the power may but the batteries probably take up most of the trunk space.
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jillnerkowski said:
to s, there is no one perfect solution, anymore than there is no one perfect person, and yet, we are all perfect, perfectly who we are, short fat, in good shape, or nearly shapeless, we are perfect. who could paint a perfect rose without the black holes of a japanese beetle?
what car of today is perfect, or not perfect? does it get you where you're going? then it works perfectly for its purpose. yet what car of today is perfect if a bicylist riding behind the car, is fumigated, and oil not only pollutes, and causes war, but is running out?
wouldnt then an electric car that only drives 50 miles an hour be perfect if it not only gets you where you're going, but it doesn't add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? no because even electricity comes from somewhere, and before we create a perfect vehicle we'll find something wrong with silicon, someone will get cancer and it will become expensive when it begins to run out. But then someone else will find a new material to generate solar electricity.
that's what life is! every cherry has a pit. but isnt that what a cherry is, a fruit with a pit? then its perfect.You're badly mistaken in regards to the amount of energy you can derive from a solar panel on a car. You get about 5 kWh/day from a square meter of flat solar panels angled correctly and in the sun. A car getting 33mpg in the city uses about 1kWh per mile. So if you leave your car out in the sun all day you'll be able to drive about a five miles. This is essentially useless.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on
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Mods: please sink this thread and put it out of it's misery.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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jillnerkowski said:S said:jillnerkowski said:
to s, there is no one perfect solution, anymore than there is no one perfect person, and yet, we are all perfect, perfectly who we are, short fat, in good shape, or nearly shapeless, we are perfect. who could paint a perfect rose without the black holes of a japanese beetle?
what car of today is perfect, or not perfect? does it get you where you're going? then it works perfectly for its purpose. yet what car of today is perfect if a bicylist riding behind the car, is fumigated, and oil not only pollutes, and causes war, but is running out?
wouldnt then an electric car that only drives 50 miles an hour be perfect if it not only gets you where you're going, but it doesn't add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? no because even electricity comes from somewhere, and before we create a perfect vehicle we'll find something wrong with silicon, someone will get cancer and it will become expensive when it begins to run out. But then someone else will find a new material to generate solar electricity.
that's what life is! every cherry has a pit. but isnt that what a cherry is, a fruit with a pit? then its perfect.You're badly mistaken in regards to the amount of energy you can derive from a solar panel on a car. You get about 5 kWh/day from a square meter of flat solar panels angled correctly and in the sun. A car getting 33mpg in the city uses about 1kWh per mile. So if you leave your car out in the sun all day you'll be able to drive about a five miles. This is essentially useless.
thats why they make cars like that lighter, did you ever try to pick up a car, even one end from the bumper, then try when there's no motor in it. they don't actually need motors, they just need electronics to convert the electrical energy to rotary energy with magnets, and then maybe some brakes.
OK, so do you understand that the battery weight, currently, required to make an electric car with a viable range is well above the weight of your average gasoline engine no used to power an automobile? Plus you are going to need, depending on your method of drive, at least one large electric motor and these are also quite heavy. In order to have a range that makes it viable to use an electric car (if you have a 5 mile range why not ride your bike?) you are actually going to end up with a vehicle that weighs as much, or more, then it's petroleum powered equivalent.
And while we are finding out if you know *anything* about what you are trying to pretend to be an expert on are you aware that solar powered cars require batteries to store the power? Unless you are dealing with a very light vehicle designed for maximum panel surface area and minimal weight and rolling resistance operating under idea conditions you do not produce enough power via solar panel to power the vehicle so you operate at a power loss using the batteries to drive the unit and then recharge when it is stationary. If you leave for work early in the morning and return home after dark there is no way to recharge unless you plug in.
Once again you are trying to talk about stuff that you have no idea how it works; I service electric vehicles. -
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Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on
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You must be one of the Big Oil operatives that have been working to conceal the truth about this thread. I'm on to you.
Kelvin Mulcky said:Mods: please sink this thread and put it out of it's misery. -
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I'm not sure you realize how little energy solar cells generate vs. gasoline. 1 gallon of gasoline is equivalent to about 36.6 kWh -- roughly the same amount of energy used by a standard US house in one day. Can you power your entire house using solar energy? Even if you covered your entire roof in solar cells? Even in the dead of a Chicago winter? No. There is a reason solar cars haven't been promoted as a solution. Even the publicity stunt/research races across the super sunny Australian outback are all but gone.
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jillnerkowski said:notoriousDUG said:
well I like the hybrid idea, that uses all the rotary energy to charge up the batteries, the roof covered in solar panels, and some gas for a start. or esle hybrid bicycle that uses some electricty and some human crank, its better exercise, and it will go fast enough to compare to a moped, just not on the highway. or amybe one of thsoe air cars, mixed iwth soalr instead of gas, for hte 8 gallons of gas, and one tank of fule for every 90-1000 miles, it could use one tank of air, and solar/electric power, or one of those three wheel hybrid bikes, with 50 cc's of gas power, and fat tires.jillnerkowski said:S said:jillnerkowski said:
to s, there is no one perfect solution, anymore than there is no one perfect person, and yet, we are all perfect, perfectly who we are, short fat, in good shape, or nearly shapeless, we are perfect. who could paint a perfect rose without the black holes of a japanese beetle?
what car of today is perfect, or not perfect? does it get you where you're going? then it works perfectly for its purpose. yet what car of today is perfect if a bicylist riding behind the car, is fumigated, and oil not only pollutes, and causes war, but is running out?
wouldnt then an electric car that only drives 50 miles an hour be perfect if it not only gets you where you're going, but it doesn't add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? no because even electricity comes from somewhere, and before we create a perfect vehicle we'll find something wrong with silicon, someone will get cancer and it will become expensive when it begins to run out. But then someone else will find a new material to generate solar electricity.
that's what life is! every cherry has a pit. but isnt that what a cherry is, a fruit with a pit? then its perfect.You're badly mistaken in regards to the amount of energy you can derive from a solar panel on a car. You get about 5 kWh/day from a square meter of flat solar panels angled correctly and in the sun. A car getting 33mpg in the city uses about 1kWh per mile. So if you leave your car out in the sun all day you'll be able to drive about a five miles. This is essentially useless.
thats why they make cars like that lighter, did you ever try to pick up a car, even one end from the bumper, then try when there's no motor in it. they don't actually need motors, they just need electronics to convert the electrical energy to rotary energy with magnets, and then maybe some brakes.
OK, so do you understand that the battery weight, currently, required to make an electric car with a viable range is well above the weight of your average gasoline engine no used to power an automobile? Plus you are going to need, depending on your method of drive, at least one large electric motor and these are also quite heavy. In order to have a range that makes it viable to use an electric car (if you have a 5 mile range why not ride your bike?) you are actually going to end up with a vehicle that weighs as much, or more, then it's petroleum powered equivalent.
And while we are finding out if you know *anything* about what you are trying to pretend to be an expert on are you aware that solar powered cars require batteries to store the power? Unless you are dealing with a very light vehicle designed for maximum panel surface area and minimal weight and rolling resistance operating under idea conditions you do not produce enough power via solar panel to power the vehicle so you operate at a power loss using the batteries to drive the unit and then recharge when it is stationary. If you leave for work early in the morning and return home after dark there is no way to recharge unless you plug in.
Once again you are trying to talk about stuff that you have no idea how it works; I service electric vehicles.
notorious dug, How many batteries do the cars have in them, and where are they located, what does the car have for a motor?
Stop talking, you have no clue what you are talking about and honestly unless you can tell me Ohms law and a HP to watt to volts/amps conversion you need to STOP TALKING LIKE YOU KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT ELECTRIC VEHICLES!!
Your first paragraph is nothing but gibberish suing a bunch of electrical and mechanical terms but not in any form of manner that even makes sense. Nothing you have listed even starts to make sense as a combination let a alone as a feasible power plant for a passenger car.
The size and location of the batteries and motor all depends on the type of system in use, planned range/service time, and many other factors. Do you even realize that a lot of times you are just using a single custom battery made up of many cells?
Tell me honestly, do you understand the concept of volts and amps ion relation to on another? What an amp/hour is? Anything at all about the power lost to conversion both to and from a storage battery as well as the mechanical loss of making something move? Do you understand how watts are determined, how they relate to horse power and how that designates your ability to do actual work, like move a car?
If you don't SHUT UP because you are not qualified to say word one about electric cars beyond that you think they are 'neat.' -
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How does a tiered roof work for solar panels...
Think about it.
They may be on the market but are they practical.
jillnerkowski said:jillnerkowski said:notoriousDUG said:
well I like the hybrid idea, that uses all the rotary energy to charge up the batteries, the roof covered in solar panels, and some gas for a start. or esle hybrid bicycle that uses some electricty and some human crank, its better exercise, and it will go fast enough to compare to a moped, just not on the highway. or amybe one of thsoe air cars, mixed iwth soalr instead of gas, for hte 8 gallons of gas, and one tank of fule for every 90-1000 miles, it could use one tank of air, and solar/electric power, or one of those three wheel hybrid bikes, with 50 cc's of gas power, and fat tires.jillnerkowski said:S said:jillnerkowski said:
to s, there is no one perfect solution, anymore than there is no one perfect person, and yet, we are all perfect, perfectly who we are, short fat, in good shape, or nearly shapeless, we are perfect. who could paint a perfect rose without the black holes of a japanese beetle?
what car of today is perfect, or not perfect? does it get you where you're going? then it works perfectly for its purpose. yet what car of today is perfect if a bicylist riding behind the car, is fumigated, and oil not only pollutes, and causes war, but is running out?
wouldnt then an electric car that only drives 50 miles an hour be perfect if it not only gets you where you're going, but it doesn't add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? no because even electricity comes from somewhere, and before we create a perfect vehicle we'll find something wrong with silicon, someone will get cancer and it will become expensive when it begins to run out. But then someone else will find a new material to generate solar electricity.
that's what life is! every cherry has a pit. but isnt that what a cherry is, a fruit with a pit? then its perfect.You're badly mistaken in regards to the amount of energy you can derive from a solar panel on a car. You get about 5 kWh/day from a square meter of flat solar panels angled correctly and in the sun. A car getting 33mpg in the city uses about 1kWh per mile. So if you leave your car out in the sun all day you'll be able to drive about a five miles. This is essentially useless.
thats why they make cars like that lighter, did you ever try to pick up a car, even one end from the bumper, then try when there's no motor in it. they don't actually need motors, they just need electronics to convert the electrical energy to rotary energy with magnets, and then maybe some brakes.
OK, so do you understand that the battery weight, currently, required to make an electric car with a viable range is well above the weight of your average gasoline engine no used to power an automobile? Plus you are going to need, depending on your method of drive, at least one large electric motor and these are also quite heavy. In order to have a range that makes it viable to use an electric car (if you have a 5 mile range why not ride your bike?) you are actually going to end up with a vehicle that weighs as much, or more, then it's petroleum powered equivalent.
And while we are finding out if you know *anything* about what you are trying to pretend to be an expert on are you aware that solar powered cars require batteries to store the power? Unless you are dealing with a very light vehicle designed for maximum panel surface area and minimal weight and rolling resistance operating under idea conditions you do not produce enough power via solar panel to power the vehicle so you operate at a power loss using the batteries to drive the unit and then recharge when it is stationary. If you leave for work early in the morning and return home after dark there is no way to recharge unless you plug in.
Once again you are trying to talk about stuff that you have no idea how it works; I service electric vehicles.
notorious dug, How many batteries do the cars have in them, and where are they located, what does the car have for a motor?
maybe a tiered roof possibilty with, five times the surface area- I guess solar is still in the works, although I have seen ones beyond the world solar races even on the market. -
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jillnerkowski said:jillnerkowski said:jillnerkowski said:notoriousDUG said:
well I like the hybrid idea, that uses all the rotary energy to charge up the batteries, the roof covered in solar panels, and some gas for a start. or esle hybrid bicycle that uses some electricty and some human crank, its better exercise, and it will go fast enough to compare to a moped, just not on the highway. or amybe one of thsoe air cars, mixed iwth soalr instead of gas, for hte 8 gallons of gas, and one tank of fule for every 90-1000 miles, it could use one tank of air, and solar/electric power, or one of those three wheel hybrid bikes, with 50 cc's of gas power, and fat tires.jillnerkowski said:S said:jillnerkowski said:
to s, there is no one perfect solution, anymore than there is no one perfect person, and yet, we are all perfect, perfectly who we are, short fat, in good shape, or nearly shapeless, we are perfect. who could paint a perfect rose without the black holes of a japanese beetle?
what car of today is perfect, or not perfect? does it get you where you're going? then it works perfectly for its purpose. yet what car of today is perfect if a bicylist riding behind the car, is fumigated, and oil not only pollutes, and causes war, but is running out?
wouldnt then an electric car that only drives 50 miles an hour be perfect if it not only gets you where you're going, but it doesn't add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere? no because even electricity comes from somewhere, and before we create a perfect vehicle we'll find something wrong with silicon, someone will get cancer and it will become expensive when it begins to run out. But then someone else will find a new material to generate solar electricity.
that's what life is! every cherry has a pit. but isnt that what a cherry is, a fruit with a pit? then its perfect.You're badly mistaken in regards to the amount of energy you can derive from a solar panel on a car. You get about 5 kWh/day from a square meter of flat solar panels angled correctly and in the sun. A car getting 33mpg in the city uses about 1kWh per mile. So if you leave your car out in the sun all day you'll be able to drive about a five miles. This is essentially useless.
thats why they make cars like that lighter, did you ever try to pick up a car, even one end from the bumper, then try when there's no motor in it. they don't actually need motors, they just need electronics to convert the electrical energy to rotary energy with magnets, and then maybe some brakes.
OK, so do you understand that the battery weight, currently, required to make an electric car with a viable range is well above the weight of your average gasoline engine no used to power an automobile? Plus you are going to need, depending on your method of drive, at least one large electric motor and these are also quite heavy. In order to have a range that makes it viable to use an electric car (if you have a 5 mile range why not ride your bike?) you are actually going to end up with a vehicle that weighs as much, or more, then it's petroleum powered equivalent.
And while we are finding out if you know *anything* about what you are trying to pretend to be an expert on are you aware that solar powered cars require batteries to store the power? Unless you are dealing with a very light vehicle designed for maximum panel surface area and minimal weight and rolling resistance operating under idea conditions you do not produce enough power via solar panel to power the vehicle so you operate at a power loss using the batteries to drive the unit and then recharge when it is stationary. If you leave for work early in the morning and return home after dark there is no way to recharge unless you plug in.
Once again you are trying to talk about stuff that you have no idea how it works; I service electric vehicles.
notorious dug, How many batteries do the cars have in them, and where are they located, what does the car have for a motor?
maybe a tiered roof possibilty with, five times the surface area- I guess solar is still in the works, although I have seen ones beyond the world solar races even on the market.
have you seen these solar cars ? just look at this one http://www.futurecars.com/futurecars/solar_cars1.html
maybe they will find a way to step up the electricity like they do in coils, in a miniature fashion, and add a miniature coil to each wire that carries the movement of electrons from one side of the chip to the other.
Notice the word 'future' in the sites name. Those are all concepts; there is nothing to 'see' because they have not been manufactured yet.
There is a way to step up electricity like they do in coils, it's called... wait for it... COILS! Oh, wait you want it smaller? Hey guess what we have really small coils! Not only can we step things up but we can step them down as well... Oh wait, did you mean amps or volts? Because when one goes up the other goes down and there is a power loss.
Get a goddamn clue about electricity before you start talking about it like you are, in any way, shape or form qualified to do so.
Seriously, a Jr. HS science class taught me more about electricity then you seem to know... -
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I like the idea of solar, compressed air, gasoline, and pedaled... especially when combined into a lightweight design. Jill, you realize that each one of these components weigh something? No you need storage, control, and safety systems for 4 different energy sources. You now need an electric motor, gasoline engine, and probably two additional drivetrain components for manual and air gearing. Add in the extra cost of making it all work together reliably and safely (when the air fire and your knees get snapped from pedaling...)... This is not going to be cheap, light, or reliable.
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Permalink Reply by Ali on
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Jill,
You are just ignorant, and are not willing to accept facts...Your infant's understanding of physics, engineering and economics in general just amuses me...You claimed earlier that you went to college, I would love to hear about what you majored in or which school you went to as well as what your degree is...I can tell you this much;
Judging from your drawings it is not art.
Judging from your suggestions regarding taxing, it is not economics.
Judging from your suggestions regarding cars, technologies in general, it is not engineering...
So what is it really? Just curious...
-Ali -
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