Kinzie. It's what's next.
Hopefully you've heard by now that CDOT will begin construction this week on the city's first protected bike lane: Kinzie Street from Milwaukee Avenue/Desplaines Street to Wells Street.
Full story on Steven Can Plan.
I want to know what you think about this.
- What do you feel will need special attention?
- Is this the right or wrong location for such a facility? Why?
- Are you going to thank/congratulate Rahm, Gabe, and the CDOT Bicycle Program?
- Will you use it?
Cycle track and protected bike lane naysayers, this isn't the post for you. But if you've ridden in protected bike lanes before, then I welcome your constructive comments and criticism based on your actual experiences.
The new beginning. Looking southeast at the intersection of Kinzie/Milwaukee/Desplaines.
Views: 3761
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by vxla on
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This whole cycle track thing on Kinzie is odd and makes me question how to do a movement contrary to how the track is built. Say you are riding west on Kinzie approaching the bridge and need to turn south onto Canal street. Technically, turned LEFT right the right lane (cycle track) is illegal. Should the cyclist be expected to dismount their bike and cross the street as a pedestrian, then re-mount when on Canal Street?
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Permalink Reply by Steven Vance on
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This part of your comment confuses me: "Technically, turned LEFT right the right lane (cycle track) is illegal."
To make a left turn, you would signal left, merge left, stop at the stop sign, and make your left turn into southbound Canal Street. This would not be illegal.
Edit: You are not required to ride in a bike lane in Chicago or Illinois. The law requires you to ride as close to the right edge or curb as "practicable" and lists several reasons why you may leave this area (including left turns and to avoid hazards).
vxla said:This whole cycle track thing on Kinzie is odd and makes me question how to do a movement contrary to how the track is built. Say you are riding west on Kinzie approaching the bridge and need to turn south onto Canal street. Technically, turned LEFT right the right lane (cycle track) is illegal. Should the cyclist be expected to dismount their bike and cross the street as a pedestrian, then re-mount when on Canal Street?
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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That's what I did this morning turning onto Clinton. It was not a big deal, although normally I would start merging earlier.
Steven Vance said:
To make a left turn, you would signal left, merge left, stop at the stop sign, and make your left turn into southbound Canal Street. This would not be illegal.
vxla said:This whole cycle track thing on Kinzie is odd and makes me question how to do a movement contrary to how the track is built. Say you are riding west on Kinzie approaching the bridge and need to turn south onto Canal street. Technically, turned LEFT right the right lane (cycle track) is illegal. Should the cyclist be expected to dismount their bike and cross the street as a pedestrian, then re-mount when on Canal Street?
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I guess for each car being parked, a minimum of 3 people would cross the bike lane: 1. From car to parking meter. 2. Back to car to place ticket behind windshield. 3 Back to sidewalk
Still, overall I agree with your assessment that parkers are not a big issue. On the other hand, I am concerned about her.
Steven Vance said:I posed this question to some people:
"How often are cars being parked?"
Let's say in one block there are 12 car parking spaces and every person removes their car after one hour of being parked. If they were randomly distributed, you would see 12 people crossing the Kinzie Street bike lane in one hour's time, or 1 person ever 5 minutes.
On a street like Kinzie, on the block between Desplaines and Jefferson, with little adjacent commercial activity, people will be parking for the maximum time available (don't know what this is), or a short time (~30 minutes, because they're visiting the park).
pee wee said:will the parking meters be moved into the 3' buffer space? i know pedestrians won't be allowed in the cycle lane, but i don't really see chicago drivers getting out of their cars and walking around the track, to the sidewalk corner, to the meter, and back just to pay their fares. folks will definitely be darting across the cycle lane to get to the meter, which could get dicey during busy times of the day.
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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on
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That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
Duppie said:Still, overall I agree with your assessment that parkers are not a big issue. On the other hand, I am concerned about her.
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Boy, I haven't see that movie for a while. Gotta put it on my Netflix queue
James Baum said:
That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
Duppie said:Still, overall I agree with your assessment that parkers are not a big issue. On the other hand, I am concerned about her.
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Permalink Reply by Gin on
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Took the track into downtown again today. All in all, looking good. I *loved* having extra space on the bridge.
I wish the light timing at Des Plaines was more favorable. I felt like I was waiting a long time and when the green came it was really quick. Meanwhile, cars were making super speedy right turns onto Des Plaines which is what I used to do on bike b/c I was too impatient to wait for the green to proceed on Kinzie.
Other trouble spots: the skewed railroad tracks (nothing new) and the sort of blind spot under the tracks where cars coming from the south access Kinzie. I think they need to nose into the lane.
Still, I am excited about this project and will probably alter my downtown access habits to use it.
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Permalink Reply by David on
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For each parked car, it's a minimum of 4 crossings. The three you mentioned, plus the return to the car at the end of the visit. And that assumes one person per car. Given that this street holds a park, there's probably a higher percentage of cars that carry more than one person. So given Steven's estimates (which I realize are simply invented), this would mean at least a crossing every minute.
It's likely that avoiding pedestrians will be a common occurrence rather than something rare. But it's much easier to deal with pedestrians wandering through than cars constantly pulling in and out of parking spaces.
Duppie said:
I guess for each car being parked, a minimum of 3 people would cross the bike lane: 1. From car to parking meter. 2. Back to car to place ticket behind windshield. 3 Back to sidewalk
Still, overall I agree with your assessment that parkers are not a big issue. On the other hand, I am concerned about her.
Steven Vance said:I posed this question to some people:
"How often are cars being parked?"
Let's say in one block there are 12 car parking spaces and every person removes their car after one hour of being parked. If they were randomly distributed, you would see 12 people crossing the Kinzie Street bike lane in one hour's time, or 1 person ever 5 minutes.
On a street like Kinzie, on the block between Desplaines and Jefferson, with little adjacent commercial activity, people will be parking for the maximum time available (don't know what this is), or a short time (~30 minutes, because they're visiting the park).
pee wee said:will the parking meters be moved into the 3' buffer space? i know pedestrians won't be allowed in the cycle lane, but i don't really see chicago drivers getting out of their cars and walking around the track, to the sidewalk corner, to the meter, and back just to pay their fares. folks will definitely be darting across the cycle lane to get to the meter, which could get dicey during busy times of the day.
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Ah crap, sorry. I meant "Turning left from the right lane (cycle track) onto Canal from westbound Kinzie"
Yes, I realize I'm not obligated to ride in the cycle track. However, if the point is to make it safer for new cyclists to feel safer, then basic traffic movements should actually be addressed by CDOT, instead of them just painting some lines and putting up plastic bollards. Signs describing traffic flow should be easily visible to traffic, motorized and non.
Steven Vance said:This part of your comment confuses me: "Technically, turned LEFT right the right lane (cycle track) is illegal."
To make a left turn, you would signal left, merge left, stop at the stop sign, and make your left turn into southbound Canal Street. This would not be illegal.
Edit: You are not required to ride in a bike lane in Chicago or Illinois. The law requires you to ride as close to the right edge or curb as "practicable" and lists several reasons why you may leave this area (including left turns and to avoid hazards).
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What existing or not-yet-existing sign or message do you think should go here?
vxla said:
Yes, I realize I'm not obligated to ride in the cycle track. However, if the point is to make it safer for new cyclists to feel safer, then basic traffic movements should actually be addressed by CDOT, instead of them just painting some lines and putting up plastic bollards. Signs describing traffic flow should be easily visible to traffic, motorized and non.
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Looks like Active Trans just confirmed that steel plates will be installed on the bridge. But it will take a few weeks:
http://www.activetrans.org/blog/rburke/chicago%E2%80%99s-first-prot...
No more slippin' and slidin' when it rains...
I think it is time for another happy dance in my cubicle...
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Great, slippery steel plates to slip and slide on when it gets cooler and the moist air condenses on it (and then maybe freezes) just because people want to run skinny race tires on their bikes and can't handle the grates....
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