Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on January 5, 2012 at 6:49am

ANY dog can attack humans if it's trained or is territorial. I play w/my neighbors(pb) all the time,it's a huge dog and well capable of taking my face off  it knows me but still... I watch my hands when trying to get the ball back, one wrong "chomp" and it's over.

I always say the ankle biters have a worse temperament than a large dog it's just you can punt a 10 pound dog into the next block. A 100 pound pit bull not so much.

El Dorado said:

Lots of people say that it's not the dogs breed but how you train them. I don't think thats true. Pit bulls seem to like to attack humans. Luckily that guy who came out with a bat had his windows open on a cold January morning to save the day!

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Permalink Reply by S on January 5, 2012 at 7:25am

I think they don't necessarily have a worse temperament, it's just that the owner(s) tend to think it's cute when their dogs behave badly and don't see the need for obedience training.  It's pretty stupid but there you go.

Mike Zumwalt said:

I always say the ankle biters have a worse temperament than a large dog it's just you can punt a 10 pound dog into the next block. A 100 pound pit bull not so much.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 5, 2012 at 7:33am

There are quite a lot of fear-biters out there alos.  Many of them have just not been properly socialized and some also have been abused to a greater or lesser extent.  Proper training as a pup is something that many owners have no clue how to do.  Instead the dog tends to train the human.  

The first rule of dog training is: Be smarter than the dog -this is where many dog-owners go wrong. 

Another issue is not properly training into dogs a healthy sense of food/feeding submission.  Failure to do this is a time-bomb waiting for some child or other stranger that the dog isn't fully aware of their hierarchy and thinks that this person needs to be properly submissive around them.    Without teaching any dog that the food bowl is NOT their territory and that ANYONE can take their food away at ANY time and they must SUBMIT to this and be the Omega in the pack (among the humans, that is) then this failure will become a time bomb waiting to go off. 

I suggest anyone with a new dog or anyone with an old dog who wants to learn some good humane training techniques to read just about anything from Dr. Ian Dunbar.

Mike Zumwalt said:

ANY dog can attack humans if it's trained or is territorial. I play w/my neighbors(pb) all the time,it's a huge dog and well capable of taking my face off  it knows me but still... I watch my hands when trying to get the ball back, one wrong "chomp" and it's over.

I always say the ankle biters have a worse temperament than a large dog it's just you can punt a 10 pound dog into the next block. A 100 pound pit bull not so much.

El Dorado said:

Lots of people say that it's not the dogs breed but how you train them. I don't think thats true. Pit bulls seem to like to attack humans. Luckily that guy who came out with a bat had his windows open on a cold January morning to save the day!

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 5, 2012 at 8:25am

The fine has nothing to do with paying for damages to the victim; that is just an issue of repercussions for not following the law.  Any compensation or restitution due the victim is going to come from a civil lawsuit, one I think it should be quite easy to win.

Jeff Schneider said:

You missed the point.  I don't think pit bulls are uniquely evil.  As you point out, any dog the size of a 70 lb pit bull is easily capable of killing a person.  And as Joe Schmoe said, animals "will sometimes do unprovoked, crazy, violent things".  My point was that anyone who chooses to own such an animal has a moral obligation to take proper precautions to protect the public (such as keeping the animal on a leash or securely confined), which this owner spectacularly failed to do.  I also feel that endangering the public by allowing these large animals to roam around the city merits a punishment much more severe than a $2k fine.  That wouldn't even pay for the victim's ambulance ride, to say nothing of the necessary reconstructive surgeries and months or years of rehabilitation.

notoriousDUG said:

Pit bulls as a breed are not a terrible dog, people make them that way and ignorance like this perpetuates the image.  An image that makes them hard to place thus making them a easy breed for dog fighters and other terrible people to own, abuse and train to be shitty animals. 

Way to be part of the problem.

ANY dog bigger than a bread box can be trained and abused making it extremely dangerous but have you ever noticed that the same breeds people find so dangerous when they are not treated well or owned by morons, German Shepards, Rottweilers, Doberman, Pit Bulls , etc... are also some of the smartest and most loyal breeds out there?  For every attack from some breed on that list you can find at least one loyal pet that is a great animal; but animals being awesome never makes the news so it skews public perception.

Did you know that pit bulls used to be the most popular breed in the US?

Jeff Schneider said:

Yeah, shit happens. Who could possibly have predicted that two un-neutered male pit bulls on the loose in an urban neighborhood would hurt anyone?


Joe Schmoe said:

Kind of tired of the bad owners line.  Dogs, like humans, are animals, and will sometimes do unprovoked, crazy, violent things.  You can't do a psych analysis on a dog, so you can't always tell how balanced they are.  A family friend had a German Shepherd; a rescue dog, but they had had her for almost 10 years. Never bit anyone, was over-protective of the owners, but that's GS's for you.  They took their son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter camping down south.  They spent 5 days in the woods, no problems, and on day 5, the 5-year old granddaughter made some kind of move the dog didn't like, and it bit her in the face, 12 stitches.  Was the owner bad?  No.  Was the dog bad?  Ehhh. Not really.  My wifey heard about it and said: "I knew there wasn't something right with that dog."  Now, you can blame the previous owners, who most certainly abused the dog, but then don't we have to blame circumstances for humans too?  Animal/human behavior is nowhere near as predictable as we'd like to believe.  And bad things happen sometimes, regardless of our best intentions. 

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 5, 2012 at 8:28am

A great point. 

In the Redeye article about this today there is a quote from a person about how you never hear of a beagle really fucking somebody but but pit bulls do it all the time; yeah, well that's because a beagle is a fairly small dog and not much of a danger to an average sized person.  The quote is interesting because beagles, though smaller, have a reputation as an ill tempered and snappy breed of dogs.

Mike Zumwalt said:

 you can punt a 10 pound dog into the next block. A 100 pound pit bull not so much.

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Permalink Reply by in it to win it 8.0 mi on January 5, 2012 at 10:50am

Pepper spray.  Works on dogs and their owners.

Next question?

 

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 5, 2012 at 11:09am

I thought pepper spray was basically a food-product?

(Ducks John Pikes billy-club)

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Permalink Reply by Sean A on January 6, 2012 at 4:09am

I'm sure they aren't bad owners and it is a shame the dog bit, but from your statement it seems they did neglect to work on the troubling behavior of being over protective; that behavior can be worked on with a trainer and consistent firm reinforcement. An undesired behavior left unchecked by the owners is irresponsible, dogs take work and all problem behaviors can and should be addressed. If a dog is meant to be a family pet that behavior needs to go, if it is meant to be a guard dog then a five year old should never be near it unleashed.

Joe Schmoe said:

Kind of tired of the bad owners line.  Dogs, like humans, are animals, and will sometimes do unprovoked, crazy, violent things.  You can't do a psych analysis on a dog, so you can't always tell how balanced they are.  A family friend had a German Shepherd; a rescue dog, but they had had her for almost 10 years. Never bit anyone, was over-protective of the owners, but that's GS's for you.  They took their son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter camping down south.  They spent 5 days in the woods, no problems, and on day 5, the 5-year old granddaughter made some kind of move the dog didn't like, and it bit her in the face, 12 stitches.  Was the owner bad?  No.  Was the dog bad?  Ehhh. Not really.  My wifey heard about it and said: "I knew there wasn't something right with that dog."  Now, you can blame the previous owners, who most certainly abused the dog, but then don't we have to blame circumstances for humans too?  Animal/human behavior is nowhere near as predictable as we'd like to believe.  And bad things happen sometimes, regardless of our best intentions. 

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Permalink Reply by igz on January 6, 2012 at 6:12am

pit bull jaws dont 'lock'.  but they do in fact have strong jaw muscles.

h' said:

I could be wrong but I'd think a small knife might backfire . . . once a Pit Bull has its jaw locked on part of your body it's reportedly pretty hard to get it to let go.

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Permalink Reply by igz on January 6, 2012 at 6:20am

so, people should get permits for bigger, faster, more dangerous cars, yes?  bigger, more built people should be considered potential criminals bent on assault, and should maybe be on a registry?

rik said:

Jeff: I concur that this is firstly an issue of the dog owner's who has to be held accountable. And secondly it is an issue for the city of Chicago that allowed it to happen.

Many times when these type of incidents occur the public news media just try to close the story and say case closed when it is learned that the dogs were killed by police.

The dogs are the victims of this reckless fool just as much as anyone they attack.

Any fool can train a little Chiwawa dog to attack and let it go wild and it would not be such a public threat; however because those dogs are a big dangerous breeds they require a much higher level of responsibility and therefore we have to hold the owners to a much higher level of accountability. I do  charge the owners with attempted manslaughter.

Those big dangerous dogs should be in a separate category and should not be allowed in public.

Any one who want one should have to get permit just like getting a gun. To get the permit the owner has to prove safety training for self and the dog.

 

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Permalink Reply by igz on January 6, 2012 at 6:22am

pit bulls will attack a perceived threat.  quite frankly, human aggression is bred out of them - otherwise, their handlers in dog fights would not be able to handle them.  please dont make assumptions.  these dogs used to be known as nanny dogs.

El Dorado said:

Lots of people say that it's not the dogs breed but how you train them. I don't think thats true. Pit bulls seem to like to attack humans. Luckily that guy who came out with a bat had his windows open on a cold January morning to save the day!

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Permalink Reply by igz on January 6, 2012 at 6:31am

i used to have a family dog - a great pyreneese. had it since an 8week old pup.  we played together all the time, till he was taller than me.  i would crawl into his dog house and nap with him there. we were great buds.  one day, at a small gathering bonfire, the dog sat next to my mom. my mom was the real master. it was incredibly loyal to her.  i was playing hide and seek with the kids. my little bro was being a punk and kept pointing everyone out with a flashlight.  i frustratingly grabbed the flashlight from my brothers hand, stomped over to my mom, and did one of those 'here, ma take this' moves with the flashlight in my hand to give to her.  the dog thought i was going to strike her with it. he grabbed my wrist before i could harm her, chomped down, and ripped off a finger nail.  i still have the scar.  it was an isolated incident, never happened again. we were buds after wards. he was only doing his job, protecting his master.

Joe Schmoe said:

Kind of tired of the bad owners line.  Dogs, like humans, are animals, and will sometimes do unprovoked, crazy, violent things.  You can't do a psych analysis on a dog, so you can't always tell how balanced they are.  A family friend had a German Shepherd; a rescue dog, but they had had her for almost 10 years. Never bit anyone, was over-protective of the owners, but that's GS's for you.  They took their son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter camping down south.  They spent 5 days in the woods, no problems, and on day 5, the 5-year old granddaughter made some kind of move the dog didn't like, and it bit her in the face, 12 stitches.  Was the owner bad?  No.  Was the dog bad?  Ehhh. Not really.  My wifey heard about it and said: "I knew there wasn't something right with that dog."  Now, you can blame the previous owners, who most certainly abused the dog, but then don't we have to blame circumstances for humans too?  Animal/human behavior is nowhere near as predictable as we'd like to believe.  And bad things happen sometimes, regardless of our best intentions. 

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