I rode today. Did you?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on
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My comment:
No one said that he was disobeying any laws. No one specifically blamed him for the accident. What we said was that this many accidents requires an examination of ones practices. Maybe nothing needs to be changed. Maybe something does. And, of course, the easiest way to get killed is to assume that the other guy is taking the greatest care -- particularly when they have the vehicle that can cause the greatest damage. And that's why the BICYCLE needs to take the greatest care, because the bicycle must assume that every driver on the street is ultimately distracted. That's called good safe defensive riding. Should Car drivers take greater care? Sure. But there is a reason for nearly 1000 traffic deaths this year in Chicago. But hey, if you want to ride with those rose colored glasses and assume that the Cars are taking care, go ahead. I am sure someone will be willing to scrape you off the pavement and put up a Ghost Bike for you....
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:Who said Michael was disobeying any laws? And I disagree – the person who is capable of inflicting the most harm is most responsible for safety. Of course when I ride, I have my own safety in mind and ride in a safe and predictable manner, but it ultimately is the responsibility of the person driving the car to act in a safe manner because they are operating the machine that is capable of inflicting far more damage. You don't give someone a gun and say that it's everyone else's responsibility to get out of the way of the bullets.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on
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In no way did I say I was assuming that car drivers are taking care to not run me over. I assume everyone driving a car is trying to run me over, for my own safety. I am merely referring to who should be held to a higher responsibility for safety by society. This does not always reflect reality, however. In the Netherlands, in a collision between car and cycle, the driver is always assumed to be at fault. American policies do not reflect this, and should.
Crazy David 84 Furlongs said:My comment:
No one said that he was disobeying any laws. No one specifically blamed him for the accident. What we said was that this many accidents requires an examination of ones practices. Maybe nothing needs to be changed. Maybe something does. And, of course, the easiest way to get killed is to assume that the other guy is taking the greatest care -- particularly when they have the vehicle that can cause the greatest damage. And that's why the BICYCLE needs to take the greatest care, because the bicycle must assume that every driver on the street is ultimately distracted. That's called good safe defensive riding. Should Car drivers take greater care? Sure. But there is a reason for nearly 1000 traffic deaths this year in Chicago. But hey, if you want to ride with those rose colored glasses and assume that the Cars are taking care, go ahead. I am sure someone will be willing to scrape you off the pavement and put up a Ghost Bike for you....
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:Who said Michael was disobeying any laws? And I disagree – the person who is capable of inflicting the most harm is most responsible for safety. Of course when I ride, I have my own safety in mind and ride in a safe and predictable manner, but it ultimately is the responsibility of the person driving the car to act in a safe manner because they are operating the machine that is capable of inflicting far more damage. You don't give someone a gun and say that it's everyone else's responsibility to get out of the way of the bullets.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on
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While everyone on the chainlink either straps on their armour and asbestos underwear and/or makes a bowl of popcorn, why doesn't someone start a new thread to avoid muddying up the "I rode today. Did you?" thread?
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Permalink Reply by Skip Montanaro 0mi on
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+1 I can't find Gene's recent pictures amidst the other noise.
Kevin C said:While everyone on the chainlink either straps on their armour and asbestos underwear and/or makes a bowl of popcorn, why doesn't someone start a new thread to avoid muddying up the "I rode today. Did you?" thread?
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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on
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No worries. The thread automatically resets at Domenica Cresap O-Clock.
Kevin C said:While everyone on the chainlink either straps on their armour and asbestos underwear and/or makes a bowl of popcorn, why doesn't someone start a new thread to avoid muddying up the "I rode today. Did you?" thread?
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Until you reminded me last night, I had forgotten to re-set my Domenica Cresap clock when the time changed.
h' 1.0 said:No worries. The thread automatically resets at Domenica Cresap O-Clock.
Kevin C said:While everyone on the chainlink either straps on their armour and asbestos underwear and/or makes a bowl of popcorn, why doesn't someone start a new thread to avoid muddying up the "I rode today. Did you?" thread?
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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on
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Had to go back three pages to bump Gene's inspiring "I rode today" photos.
Gene Tenner said:
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Permalink Reply by David Barish on
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...ah, thanks for the reset, that felt good...I rode today, did not snap any gorgeous pictures and fortunately, did not have an accident. It was nice to ride without a balaclava. It was also nice to have fenders. While we are on the subject, it was just plain nice.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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The first thing they teach you in road safety classes, and in accident investigation, is that almost all 'accidents' ('incident' is the preferred term) are avoidable. They also teach you that most collisions do not have a single cause and in multi vehicle collisions you can often find behavior on the part of both participants making them each partially culpable for the incident. One may be more at fault, say they blew a stop sign and were breaking the law, but the second party shares some amount of culpability because they failed to notice, or respond to, the fact that the other vehicle was not stopping.
The sooner you realize that ANY time you are in an accident there is something you could have done to prevent it the safer you will be on the road. I know that for me pretty much all of the accidents I have had could have been avoided had I been paying more attention, thought more about where I was on the road or had been riding more cautiously. Did other people make mistakes that caused the accident, yes they did but that does not change the fact that I still bore some responsibility for the accident.
Michael Perez said:This accident was unavoidable as the pavement was wet, the car who cut me off could have had it worse than me and I couldn't stop. Turning wasn't an option and I couldn't go left since I saw lights and heard cars speeding. Where does that leave me? Hitting a driver's window. I have changed my riding habits plenty of times, it's just a bad year.
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See, that makes sense on paper but expecting the car to take greater care in actual practice is not really a great idea when you're the guy on the bike. Being in the right and dead still involves being dead.
Your example with the gun is terrible; accidents for the most part do not happen out of malice or ill will. They usually happen out of humans making a mistake, not paying attention or not thinking and there is no way to solve that, ever. If you want to stay alive on the road as a vulnerable user you need to be aware that people are going to do dumb stuff around you and be prepared for it.
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:Who said Michael was disobeying any laws? And I disagree – the person who is capable of inflicting the most harm is most responsible for safety. Of course when I ride, I have my own safety in mind and ride in a safe and predictable manner, but it ultimately is the responsibility of the person driving the car to act in a safe manner because they are operating the machine that is capable of inflicting far more damage. You don't give someone a gun and say that it's everyone else's responsibility to get out of the way of the bullets.
Crazy David 84 Furlongs said:Riding a bicycle does not mean that the rider is free to disregard all laws and safety rules and policies. Quite to the contrary, as the person who takes the greatest damage in an accident, this person is under an obligation to pay the greatest attention to safety rules and policies.
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Here is the "I rode today" component again. Love you dug, but this is the "I rode today" thread!
Lisa Curcio 4.1 mi said:Had to go back three pages to bump Gene's inspiring "I rode today" photos.
Gene Tenner said:
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All this is way beside the point that Michael needs to seriously rethink his riding style.
notoriousDUG said:See, that makes sense on paper but expecting the car to take greater care in actual practice is not really a great idea when you're the guy on the bike. Being in the right and dead still involves being dead.
Your example with the gun is terrible; accidents for the most part do not happen out of malice or ill will. They usually happen out of humans making a mistake, not paying attention or not thinking and there is no way to solve that, ever. If you want to stay alive on the road as a vulnerable user you need to be aware that people are going to do dumb stuff around you and be prepared for it.
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:Who said Michael was disobeying any laws? And I disagree – the person who is capable of inflicting the most harm is most responsible for safety. Of course when I ride, I have my own safety in mind and ride in a safe and predictable manner, but it ultimately is the responsibility of the person driving the car to act in a safe manner because they are operating the machine that is capable of inflicting far more damage. You don't give someone a gun and say that it's everyone else's responsibility to get out of the way of the bullets.
Crazy David 84 Furlongs said:Riding a bicycle does not mean that the rider is free to disregard all laws and safety rules and policies. Quite to the contrary, as the person who takes the greatest damage in an accident, this person is under an obligation to pay the greatest attention to safety rules and policies.
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