I need some help with a LARGE project relating to bicycle and component production.

Hey guys, here's the deal. Some friends and I have started working on a plan to move bicycle production from Taiwan/China to Detroit, MI. I'm going to Interbike to pitch it to people, but I need some numbers to be pitching. What I need is some fairly solid numbers as to the cost of producing a bicycle in Taiwan, and the same bicycle in Detroit. There are obviously tons of factors that can't be accurately estimated, but a rough picture should be possible.

please hit me up with anything you come up with. Treechunk@gmail.com

http://www.retroit.org/blog/

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Permalink Reply by Todd Scott on September 20, 2009 at 4:10am
Do I live in the city? Unfortunately, I don't. I am 4.5 miles north of Eight Mile. That said, nearly all of my work and nearly all of my biking is in the city of Detroit. I am looking to eventually move downtown but I am unwilling to take the huge loss on my current home until the market recovers.

Sam, you didn't answer my questions about having been in Detroit or having ridden a bike in it. Before making a pitch to be our saviour, it seems like you'd want to know a little bit about the city so you could speak more accurately and have a more realistic vision and plan.
Permalink Reply by Sam Van Dellen on September 20, 2009 at 5:00am
Todd, firstly, I appreciate you taking the time to answer, and I really do appreciate your input. I have not yet been to Detroit, I am planning a trip up there in November and I'd love to hang out with you and get your perspective, see the city as you see it, and fit our visions of what is and could be together. I have a number of friends who are from Detroit, I have a friend who is living there currently and grew up in that area, and I have talked with all of them about this. Just to be perfectly clear with you, my intention is NOT to be the savior of Detroit. My intention is to give any and all help I can in whatever ways possible to equip Detroit to transform into something really amazing, into a place where people around the world want to visit and learn from Detroit. This is not about me, this is not really about Detroit, this is REALLY about an example of what US manufacturing CAN be.

Seriously Todd, THANK YOU for being willing to enter into discussion, I really value what you have to say, and I'd like to know what your ideas are so we can work together for the best good of everyone involved. I'm very serious about all of this, and what I have in mind is not possible without the participation of LOTS of people, you included.

THANK YOU for responding, I'd like to talk more with you about this, and explain where we had some miscommunication, but I want to keep this thread really about the vision and work out our stuff on email if you're open to that.

talk to ya soon,
Sam


Todd Scott said:
Do I live in the city? Unfortunately, I don't. I am 4.5 miles north of Eight Mile. That said, nearly all of my work and nearly all of my biking is in the city of Detroit. I am looking to eventually move downtown but I am unwilling to take the huge loss on my current home until the market recovers.

Sam, you didn't answer my questions about having been in Detroit or having ridden a bike in it. Before making a pitch to be our saviour, it seems like you'd want to know a little bit about the city so you could speak more accurately and have a more realistic vision and plan.
Permalink Reply by Duppie on September 20, 2009 at 5:45am
Sam, have you looked around online? here is one example of pricing of China made bikes Some of the suppliers give pricing, some don't. It seems to be $45 and up, FOB Shanghai, when ordered in 100 pcs. And I am sure that Wallyworld bikes are even cheaper, due to the large quantities they order.

While the big guys get all the attention at Interbike, there are lots of small manufacturers of bikes and or components. Talking to them should give you a good idea of the cost of these China made bikes/parts.
Good luck.
Frank
Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on September 20, 2009 at 5:59am
What's with this stuff about defending Detroit's honor? The city has 29% unemployment (probably understated), whole neighborhoods that have been abandoned, stretches of boarded up storefronts miles long, etc. If I recall correctly a sociologist found that something like 80% of food sold in the city is bought at liquor or convenience stores. I'm not sure there's a movie theater within city limits and downtown has a truly shocking number of casinos, Church's chicken places and burned out buildings.

There are certainly a lot of creative people doing interesting things in the ruins but the idea that Sam is just accepting second hand stereotypes by thinking of the place as New Orleans North is just weird; if anything the city is worse off than is usually recognized. And for what it's worth when I was there recently it seemed like a nice place to bike because it's beautiful and so desolate that there's no traffic, but all the people I saw riding were invariably salmoning on sidewalks on department store bikes.
Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on September 20, 2009 at 7:46am
I love this thread. Detroit should be a cheap place to operate with the necessary industrial infrastructure to make it happen.

And somebody make a folding touring bike with 20" wheels! Dahon sells like hotcakes - why not a Detroit folder!
Permalink Reply by Sam Van Dellen on September 20, 2009 at 8:19am
What I'd like to have happen is 80% of the components and accessories of EVERY type of bike to be made in Detroit. I don't think new companies are necessary in and of themselves, existing companies can do a fine job here.

Matt M. said:
I love this thread. Detroit should be a cheap place to operate with the necessary industrial infrastructure to make it happen.

And somebody make a folding touring bike with 20" wheels! Dahon sells like hotcakes - why not a Detroit folder!
Permalink Reply by Sam Van Dellen on September 20, 2009 at 8:21am
My personal feeling on this is that Detroit without question has honor and value, and I don't want this to turn into anything other than a discussion of how to make it work. Can we keep it on topic?

Dr. Doom said:
What's with this stuff about defending Detroit's honor? The city has 29% unemployment (probably understated), whole neighborhoods that have been abandoned, stretches of boarded up storefronts miles long, etc. If I recall correctly a sociologist found that something like 80% of food sold in the city is bought at liquor or convenience stores. I'm not sure there's a movie theater within city limits and downtown has a truly shocking number of casinos, Church's chicken places and burned out buildings.

There are certainly a lot of creative people doing interesting things in the ruins but the idea that Sam is just accepting second hand stereotypes by thinking of the place as New Orleans North is just weird; if anything the city is worse off than is usually recognized. And for what it's worth when I was there recently it seemed like a nice place to bike because it's beautiful and so desolate that there's no traffic, but all the people I saw riding were invariably salmoning on sidewalks on department store bikes.
Permalink Reply by Todd Scott on September 20, 2009 at 8:25am
Dr. Doom said:
What's with this stuff about defending Detroit's honor? The city has 29% unemployment (probably understated), whole neighborhoods that have been abandoned, stretches of boarded up storefronts miles long, etc. If I recall correctly a sociologist found that something like 80% of food sold in the city is bought at liquor or convenience stores. I'm not sure there's a movie theater within city limits and downtown has a truly shocking number of casinos, Church's chicken places and burned out buildings.
Yeah, what is it with people from a city not sitting back and taking b!tch slaps from people who clearly have no clue about the city itself. That is weird.

Yes, Detroit does have movie theaters. The "shocking" number of casinos within Downtown Detroit is two. Church's Chicken? Zero.
Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on September 20, 2009 at 11:15am
Two is a shocking number of casinos to have in a CBD, and they aren't the only casinos in town. And while you may be right about the Church's as I'm not sure whether 4600 Woodward is technically downtown, the appalling shady business:normal business ratio within whatever the actual limits of downtown are shouldn't really be much consolation if you're trying to convince people that Detroit doesn't look like it was hit with a neutron bomb. There's really no reason to run down a guy for putting an idea forward here.
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on September 20, 2009 at 12:07pm
Todd,

I'm deeply sorry you are so butt hurt by the fact that many people think the city you live close to is a vast track of urban blight but I think it is maybe time you stopped, took a second, rejoined reality and admitted to the fact that Detroit is a city on the ropes.

You had a criminal for a mayor who may or may not have had a hooker killed after his wife kicked her ass, there are no jobs there, a house in the city limits can be bought for under 5K, jobs and industry are fleeing an the area is a mess of abandoned houses, factories and neighborhoods; face the facts you live in one of the most burned out cities in the country and I challenge you to come up with figures that prove otherwise.

For the record, I frequently work in Detroit and am partnered with several companies in that area, it's a damn shithole and if you really gave a crap about the area rather then sitting here crying over your towns hurt feelings you would be putting the effort you are using to bitch at somebody trying to do some good and use it in a positive manner instead of being a whiner.
Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on September 20, 2009 at 1:39pm
I meant less to bash Detroit (if my life were in a different place I'd move there tomorrow) than to point out that Chicago might be at least as viable a site for such an ambitious project. The South Side has a lot of the same needs as Detroit and a lot of the same resources, but it's a much easier place to do large scale business because the city government is actually functional. For instance, just to blue sky (and what else are we doing here?), you can pretty easily imagine Chicago wresting some federal funding and tax breaks to manufacture Velib/B-Cycle-style bikes in the city. I'm not really sure that's true of Detroit.
Permalink Reply by Todd Scott on September 20, 2009 at 1:46pm
Brian, nice post. There were actually 1,980 cyclists at the Tour de Troit this year. :)

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