Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on February 8, 2012 at 4:25pm

It's actually better on the bike to keep it at a constant temperature.  Taking the bike in will make it warm up but before it warms up all the moisture in your warm/moist living space will condense on it making it wet.  Also any snow or ice on the bike will melt, making it wet.

Wet + salt from the roads means rust on steel and corrosion on aluminum alloy.

It also can cause moisture built-up in some parts like inside the hubs.

When you go back outside that moisture may freeze causing shifting issue with internally--geared hubs or other issues as that moisture freezes inside/on your bike.

Then again, thieves will thank you for leaving your bike outside for them. 

Six of one -half a dozen of the other.  The best middle ground is an unheated but secure garage. 

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Permalink Reply by Allen Wrench on February 8, 2012 at 4:26pm

I don't think it makes any difference. Theoretically, repeated heating and cooling can cause condensation inside various hollow spaces and lead to rust or wreck grease, so leaving it in the cold might be better, but if it's all lubed and happy I don't think it will notice the temperature. Try to keep it dry. If you feel sorry for it go ride it around and keep it happy!

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on February 8, 2012 at 4:49pm

+1 

Then again I tend to strip my bike down to the frame every year or two, dip in OA and then spray oil inside, wax it liberally, and then put everything back together after detail cleaning every single part, regreasing everything, new bearing balls, polishing every square inch, and waxing it too.  While it is apart I repair, adjust and replace anything that is out of spec.

When I'm done it's like having a whole new bike. 

I don't worry too  much about "abuse" when I'm going to get a "new" bike soon.  Who cares about salt and winter?  BRING IT!

Allen Wrench said:

I don't think it makes any difference. Theoretically, repeated heating and cooling can cause condensation inside various hollow spaces and lead to rust or wreck grease, so leaving it in the cold might be better, but if it's all lubed and happy I don't think it will notice the temperature. Try to keep it dry. If you feel sorry for it go ride it around and keep it happy!

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Permalink Reply by S on February 8, 2012 at 5:30pm

I'd be more worried about someone stealing the bike when it's out overnight than with damage due to it being left outside.  If it's left out overnight, regularly then there's a chance someone might notice and decide grabbing it late at night or early in the morning wouldn't be risky.

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Permalink Reply by Renee Patten on February 9, 2012 at 7:00am

Hopefully my office's hallway works as an unheated garage, that way it's not going from extreme to extreme. I appreciate the thoughts & Allen's. I'm riding it everyday, attempting to keep it happy and avoid it making too awful of noises. 

S, not worried about it being stolen outside overnight, that is a non-issue for now.

James BlackHeron said:

It's actually better on the bike to keep it at a constant temperature.  Taking the bike in will make it warm up but before it warms up all the moisture in your warm/moist living space will condense on it making it wet.  Also any snow or ice on the bike will melt, making it wet.

Wet + salt from the roads means rust on steel and corrosion on aluminum alloy.

It also can cause moisture built-up in some parts like inside the hubs.

When you go back outside that moisture may freeze causing shifting issue with internally--geared hubs or other issues as that moisture freezes inside/on your bike.

Then again, thieves will thank you for leaving your bike outside for them. 

Six of one -half a dozen of the other.  The best middle ground is an unheated but secure garage. 

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Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on February 10, 2012 at 1:09pm

I leave my bike out - nowhere at work or home to really keep it inside. And, frankly, I just replace my chain every spring. Even with lube it gets so rusty, as I don't have a great place to set up and do real bike maintenance. If only I lived closer to Humboldt and West Town Bikes!

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Permalink Reply by Downtown Dave on February 10, 2012 at 1:36pm

I tend to keep it in during the winter. I hafta believe all that salt and moisture isn't going to be good for the metal in the long run.

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Permalink Reply by Amber K on February 10, 2012 at 10:45pm

Lube it all you want, but bring it in!

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Permalink Reply by David on February 12, 2012 at 6:34am

I'd like to add to the point about security: I used to leave my bike outside, locked up with a Kryptonite U-bolt, overnight, just like you. I thought I lived on a safe street. One day, I went outside to find the bike gone-- bits of the clipped lock sitting on the ground.

I got a new bike and now never leave it outside overnight.

If you DO want to continue to leave yours outside, please consider security options, such as whether there's a camera, a doorman, a good view from passersby that would deter thieves, a GPS tracker on your bike, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher Wallace on February 13, 2012 at 3:45am

Salt is more reactive with metal when temperature rises. When I would bring my bike inside I would place it in the shower and remove all salt immediately. Seal all the holes in your bike and use fenders. Keep salt from entering your frame at the holes in your seat stays, chain stays, Seat tube clamp hole,  bottom  of headset. Seal holes with silicon caulk, cover seat tube cut to prevent tire thrown water from entering the frame. Zip tie an inner tube over the frame tube cut or use fenders to prevent spray from entering frame. Waxing the paint does reduce water damage. Inspect around lugs for paint cracks, when water rusts a tube/lug joint it can tear apart the connection. Rust at welds can weaken the metal and cause a cracks. Use a thick oil to lubricate chain links, this will reduce rust in wet conditions. Do not lubricate derailleur cables, viscosity of the cold lube will prevent cables from moving in extreme temperatures. Try to find some cover for the bike. Have fun, ride all year, have more fun. 

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on February 13, 2012 at 5:17am

If one is going to seal the weep holes in the frame then one MUST do a good job with framesaver inside to protect against rust.

You CAN NOT seal a frame up from moisture short of filling it with expanding foam.  Air gets into the frame and air contains moisture.  Moisture condenses when the cold frame comes into the warm house and sits inside the frame.  This happens every time you bring your cold frame into your nice warm heated home with the humidifier running on the furnace to keep your nose from drying out and bleeding.  This warm moist air gets all over your bike and inside the frame tubes.  Even if you don't have a built-in humidifier on your furnace the chances are that your inside air has a bunch of moisture in it that will condense on and in a cold bike frame. 

(I love saying the word moist.)

If you seal up the weep holes that moisture is NOT going to be able to escape.  It's just going to SIT in your frame.  This is double-plus ungood.

I'd suggest just spraying a nice heavy oil into the weep holes of the chain/seat-stays and letting it sit there and shake it around (or using framesaver) instead of trying to out-think the engineers who put weep holes in your frame tubes for a reason.

Fenders are a great idea, but blocking the weep holes is going to serve to trap more moisture in your stay tubes than is going to keep out.  How much gets up in those tiny little holes near the dropouts anyhow?

Christopher Wallace said:

Salt is more reactive with metal when temperature rises. When I would bring my bike inside I would place it in the shower and remove all salt immediately. Seal all the holes in your bike and use fenders. Keep salt from entering your frame at the holes in your seat stays, chain stays, Seat tube clamp hole,  bottom  of headset. Seal holes with silicon caulk, cover seat tube cut to prevent tire thrown water from entering the frame. Zip tie an inner tube over the frame tube cut or use fenders to prevent spray from entering frame. Waxing the paint does reduce water damage. Inspect around lugs for paint cracks, when water rusts a tube/lug joint it can tear apart the connection. Rust at welds can weaken the metal and cause a cracks. Use a thick oil to lubricate chain links, this will reduce rust in wet conditions. Do not lubricate derailleur cables, viscosity of the cold lube will prevent cables from moving in extreme temperatures. Try to find some cover for the bike. Have fun, ride all year, have more fun. 

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on February 13, 2012 at 11:45am

Cleaning, polishing, detailing and waxing is an art.  I'm glad you asked but be prepared for a novel here.

The easiest way is to strip the bike down as far as you are comfortable with.  The more stuff you can get off and out of the way the faster the job goes with maybe the exception of the bottom bracket and the headset.  You will actually save time doing a good job for every minute you spend taking the bike apart and reassembling it.  That time pays for itself in making the job go quicker if you are going to do a really good job of it. 

Pulling the wheels off  (and fenders too, naturally) will give you the most access.   Pulling the seat off doesn't help that much but is really easy (it's a good time to re-grease the seat post while you are at it anyhow so it doesnt' get stuck int the future and you won't get crap on the seat if you have a really nice one.)

Pulling the brakes and cables off helps a whole bunch and to a lesser extent the derailleurs if you have those too.  Just getting the cables out of the way is the big part but getting the derailleurs off helps you get into those crannies where the mounts probably have scratched/chipped the paint and where rust usually starts.  If you get cleaning products (especially abrasive ones) on the bare cables it may cause them to bind.  Avoid this.

So step 1 is to strip down the bike as far as you feel comfortable -and if you don't feel comfortable taking anything but the wheels and fenders it is enough to get the job done -although the going will be slow with the other stuff in the way.  It is going to take you longer to do the job really wel with stuff in the way  than it does to pull the parts off if you know how.

Step 2 is really washing down the frame to get all the dirt and grease off of the paint.  If you wax over dirt you are just going to grind abrasive into the paint and decals and embed it into the wax.  Dirt holds moisture and moisture held up against parts that might not be protected fully against corrosion is bad -and runs counter to the whole reason for this exercise.  

Dish detergent or ammonia-based cleaners like glass cleaner strips wax like the devil itself.  If you are NOT going to re-wax your bike after washing never use a detergent like dish soap or any other harsh chemical that will strip the wax you do have on the bike right off.  This goes for automotive washing too. So many people make this mistake.  Washing with dish soap strips any wax you have on the surface right away and it is gone.  If you plan on putting more on this is fine.   You want the old stuff gone and the dirt/crud gone as well.  Dish soap is always handy and many people chose it when they are filling a wash bucket at the sink.  It's ok if you are going to be re-waxing though although it can be a bit harsh on some fine paints.   Rinse well when you are done washing and use a clean cloth so as not to scratch paint with abrasive dirt particles.  Towel dry.

Step 3 is polishing the frame.  You can skip this step and go straight to the waxing if you don't care about a super-fresh looking bike but polishing  an older nicked and scratched frame that looks like hell can make it look amazing with only a little bit of elbow grease.  You will be amazed.  I do this to all the bikes I restore.   So many people think a bike needs to be repainted when often times the factory paint just needs to be polished up.  Smaller nicks and scratches look much better once the rust is polished out of them. Bare metal looks nice actually and I like to call it a patina that adds to the beauty of a bike.  Much of what looks like "bad paint" is actually just dirty, surface-rust stains, and goop like dried-on grease and road tar that soap doesn't really wash off well.  There is GOOD PAINT under there if you buff and polish the ugly stained, dull, marred & scratched surface. 

To polish use a product like Meguiar's Scratch-X or Mother's Scratch Remover.  Both work wonders but the Scratch-X is very well thought-of in the vintage bike restoration community.  It's also 2x as much.

Both will make old dull and even faded or oxidized paint look shiny and new again.  It'll clean rust stains off of the paint as well as clean out the rust in the chips.  Be careful not to burn all the way through the paint and be VERY easy around decals.    The scratch remover also gets out stubborn grease-marks and tar stains on the paint that washing won't touch.  It gets off surface mars and scratches as well.  Rinse well with soap and water to get it all off. and old (but clean) toothbrush helps get into nooks and crannies like frame lugs and such.

Step 4 is to apply the wax.  The wax brand and type really isn't that important.  I like to get the thickest goopiest stuff I can that will really coat the bike well.  Caranuba works well.  Whenever I go into a big-box store, auto store, and even dollar stores I'm always eyeing the clearance rack for automotive paint scratch remover/polish and auto wax.  it's amazing how quick the bottles change labels and they need to clear out the old style.   I never pay retail for this stuff.  I buy what is on sale or on clearance.

Step 5 is to let the wax get good and dry.  Wait an hour if you have to but let it really dry up and then go at it with a soft cotton rag like an old T-shirt.  Make sure the cloth is CLEAN.  Dirt and grease are things you don't want to rub into your wax!  This goes for all the steps before too.  

After you have the wax really polished up you can either add another coat or move onto the detailing stage with the clean toothbrush to get any waxy residue out of lugs or other crevices.  Just keep going until it is all gone.

Step 6 is to put the bike back together.  You may want to clean and wax the components too using the same process.  Be careful with alloy parts as they are often coated with clear coats to protect the aluminum from oxidaton and if you strip this to polish it up you will end up a slave to this process as it will constantly need polish and wax to protect what the clear coat used to protect.  Some alloy parts aren't protected and you can get metal and aluminium alloy polish to clean them up too.  I get extremely anal about cleaning things like brake calipers and such and pull everything apart to clean every little part, polish the pivots and wax the parts before greasing them and putting them back together.  I'm a little OCD about bike cleaning and restoration.  When I get done with a bike it looks almost brand new.  I buy and sell bikes and after cleaning, polishing and waxing them it's almost like a different bike when I am done.

You can skip just about any of the steps if you don't want to go all OCD about it but just don't grind dirt into your paint or you will not be happy with the results.  

Like everything the more you do it the better you get at it.  Work slowly and avoid wrecking stuff.  Never use a harsher cleaning method on anything than you need as you can often do more damage than good.  If a frame doesn't need to be polished then don't do it.  With the Scratch-X it is hard to mess anything up other than decals or clear-coat on alloy parts.  You really have to go nuts to burn through the thick paint most of the time unless it is detail paint on lugs or labeling and stuff like that.  

carfreecommuter said:

James,

I've never waxed a frame before but am considering it. What do you recommend?

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