Hey Ladies! What are your biggest pet peeves as a woman cyclist?

Specifically what behaviors do you feel subjected to, especially those of other cyclists, that annoy/irritate/frighten you that you feel you disproportionately experience as a direct result of your gender identity.

I am exploring this as a possible topic for an upcoming video education piece. So hit me.

Feel free to send me your thoughts in an email (jason@activetrans.org) if you don't feel like sharing with the group.

Thanks all!

Jason Jenkins

Education Specialist

Active Trans

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 25, 2013 at 10:04am

yeah that's cool. this thread made it almost four pages before getting trolled into oblivion. We were nearly at the risk of having some occasion where people could relate anything. 

Permalink Reply by Davo on September 25, 2013 at 10:05am

This is true peenworm there is a whole lot of stuff that I don't have to think about being white and male. And I'll admit that I have learned some things through out this discussion and it might make me think more about how I speak and act. There definitely could be a rousing round table discussion about things like this that I would enjoy listening and being a part of. The links supplied is where I feel a bit of white man hating is implied. And maybe that was the intent, so I can feel (somewhat) what others have to deal with on a daily basses.

Permalink Reply by Michelle on September 25, 2013 at 10:06am

I would never assume to ask someone about their genitals, no worries there. Thats weird. "Hey what're your genitals like?!" is not something I would do. Sorry if you've encountered that.

As for ze/zer-- Ive always wondered how I am to know to use these if a person appears to be one gender or the other to me. I have no desire to offend or hurt anyone, but I also do generally speak by normal conventions in every day life, and it's not always immediately apparent. 

Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 25, 2013 at 10:07am

I don't think anything in the thread, or anything in the links, had any "implied white man hating." These were all "that thing you're doing - is not great to do." We can stop doing those things. 

Davo said:

This is true peenworm there is a whole lot of stuff that I don't have to think about being white and male. And I'll admit that I have learned some things through out this discussion and it might make me think more about how I speak and act. There definitely could be a rousing round table discussion about things like this that I would enjoy listening and being a part of. The links supplied is where I feel a bit of white man hating is implied. And maybe that was the intent, so I can feel (somewhat) what others have to deal with on a daily basses.

Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on September 25, 2013 at 10:11am

Well as a transwoman I identify as female but this is a good time to bring up another point:

 

It is NOT OK to tell a trans person that they can or can't "pass" for their gender indentity.  Looks have nothing to do with identity.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

What gender do you identify as, Envane?

envane (69 furlongs) said:

It is NOT OK to use "transgender", "transsexual", "genderqueer", or "nonbinary" as a noun or verb without permission.  Its is NOT OK to use gendered pronouns,  (#triggerwarning "he","she") until you know for sure what the person's gender indentity is.  Instead use "ze/zer"  It is OK to ask what gender a person identifies as, but it is NOT OK to ask about zers genitals (none of your business and completely irrelevant, cis-bigot).

 


Michelle said:

Fair. What can I do to be more sensitive to that? That's an issue I'm not super well-versed in. 

envane (69 furlongs) said:

As a transwoman, my pet peeve is when people just assume I am a woman just because I look like one. Hellooooo #nonbinary #genderqueer

Permalink Reply by Michelle on September 25, 2013 at 10:14am

Again, that's understandable, though doesn't solve the notion that sometimes someone might just hve absolutely no idea, which is where I fall into difficulty. Can we bring this around to biking experiences? How has this affected you as a cyclist? 


envane (69 furlongs) said:

Well as a transwoman I identify as female but this is a good time to bring up another point:

 

It is NOT OK to tell a trans person that they can or can't "pass" for their gender indentity.  Looks have nothing to do with identity.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

What gender do you identify as, Envane?

envane (69 furlongs) said:

It is NOT OK to use "transgender", "transsexual", "genderqueer", or "nonbinary" as a noun or verb without permission.  Its is NOT OK to use gendered pronouns,  (#triggerwarning "he","she") until you know for sure what the person's gender indentity is.  Instead use "ze/zer"  It is OK to ask what gender a person identifies as, but it is NOT OK to ask about zers genitals (none of your business and completely irrelevant, cis-bigot).

 


Michelle said:

Fair. What can I do to be more sensitive to that? That's an issue I'm not super well-versed in. 

envane (69 furlongs) said:

As a transwoman, my pet peeve is when people just assume I am a woman just because I look like one. Hellooooo #nonbinary #genderqueer

Permalink Reply by Liz on September 25, 2013 at 10:46am

Maybe its not specifically "sexism" because its not institutionalized, but there's certainty gender bias both ways.

such as assuming a reckless cyclist is a man or being shocked that a man can't change his own tire. 


echo said:

So Michelle pointed out I misunderstood part of your reply. My mistake, I am glad to see you clarified what you meant in a comment to her post. So, I guess then, my earlier post is mostly applicable in regards to your original post. 

You were never called a sexist, at least not by me. In fact, I was pretty clear in specifically NOT calling you a sexist by, you know, taking your intentions out of the conversation and that whole thing.

I'd like to specify that microaggressions DO NOT work both ways. reverse sexism, reverse racism. those do. not. exist. While I'm at it, I'll add that color blindness or gender blindness are also bad and only perpetuate the status quo. 

http://scribotarian.com/2011/07/21/playing-with-privilege-a-sexism-...


Davo said:

Yes I would not want to believe that the experience was solely about gender, perhaps the mechanic was just a jerk. But after further elaboration, it is known that she felt the mechanics conduct was based of her gender and I can try to understand that the best I can as a man. 

I'd like to add that microagressions work both ways. There is no way that I can reiterate myself that wont get thrown back in my face as implying that i am a complete sexist. It sucks that people are subject to subconscious and conscious beratement (for lack of a better word).

Permalink Reply by Davo on September 25, 2013 at 10:49am

No worries, I truly have learned a bit from this discussion. The last link was by far the best for me. When I was referring to microagressions working in two ways, I was relating to my experiences as a white male (stick with me here for a moment). Sometimes I feel through sorts of microagressions that I get labeled as a sexist and, to some extent racist, just because I am a white male and that sucks. Maybe there is a better or different word for this. I will totally admit that these experiences do not equate fully to what other genders or races experience.

Anyway here is an experience that I wanted to share after learning about microagressions today:

My wife and I got married last year and 6 months in she had an opportunity to WWOOF (willing workers on organic farms) in Oregon. I was super jealous because I couldn't leave my job. Anyhoo I had lots of friends, family, and strangers say how it was so cool that I LET her go to do this. To which my response was that I didn't LET her do anything it was her decision and she probably wouldn't get a chance to do it again for a while. I always got a good laugh out of those interactions.


Sorry about taking the thread off topic. Once again thanks for that last link, I think I understand more now.


echo said:

So Michelle pointed out I misunderstood part of your reply. My mistake, I am glad to see you clarified what you meant in a comment to her post. So, I guess then, my earlier post is mostly applicable in regards to your original post. 

You were never called a sexist, at least not by me. In fact, I was pretty clear in specifically NOT calling you a sexist by, you know, taking your intentions out of the conversation and that whole thing.

I'd like to specify that microaggressions DO NOT work both ways. reverse sexism, reverse racism. those do. not. exist. While I'm at it, I'll add that color blindness or gender blindness are also bad and only perpetuate the status quo. 

http://scribotarian.com/2011/07/21/playing-with-privilege-a-sexism-...



Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on September 25, 2013 at 10:58am

I think though, if we take what happened here as any sorta ~learning moment~ and so on, you might not be getting labeled sexist or racist as much as you think. If you felt it was implied you were a complete sexist here in this thread, and that turns out to not have happened, that might be applicable to a broader experience of feeling like you're accused of being sexist or racist for just being a white male. 


Davo said:

No worries, I truly have learned a bit from this discussion. The last link was by far the best for me. When I was referring to microagressions working in two ways, I was relating to my experiences as a white male (stick with me here for a moment). Sometimes I feel through sorts of microagressions that I get labeled as a sexist and, to some extent racist, just because I am a white male and that sucks. Maybe there is a better or different word for this. I will totally admit that these experiences do not equate fully to what other genders or races experience.

Anyway here is an experience that I wanted to share after learning about microagressions today:

My wife and I got married last year and 6 months in she had an opportunity to WWOOF (willing workers on organic farms) in Oregon. I was super jealous because I couldn't leave my job. Anyhoo I had lots of friends, family, and strangers say how it was so cool that I LET her go to do this. To which my response was that I didn't LET her do anything it was her decision and she probably wouldn't get a chance to do it again for a while. I always got a good laugh out of those interactions.


Sorry about taking the thread off topic. Once again thanks for that last link, I think I understand more now.

Permalink Reply by Davo on September 25, 2013 at 11:12am

Not a complete sexist, but a passive one because of how i worded my original post. I didn't know that my post had microaggressions in it but it did.

A lot of quantitive misinterpretations done by me and others here.  

Permalink Reply by Anne B. on September 25, 2013 at 11:35am

Oh, I more meant low cut shirts or shorts, that kinda thing. Although one time I wore an awesome 80s prom dress to Critical Mass and I got such gross, leering looks from a few guys (NOT cyclists). Ugh. 

I'll definitely check out the bell hooks link- thanks for posting that, Daniel! 

Michelle said:

Not only is it sad to have to think like that, it can be dangerous, if by not attracting attention you also mean not wearing bright, easy to see colors. 

Anne B. said:

I always go to Comrade and those guys (and the woman there) are awesome and non-condescending. I don't get cat called a lot but it's happened a handful of times in the last week and is gross and depressing. I sometimes take this into account when I choose what to wear while biking- I don't want to attract attention. It's sad to have to think like that. 

I did a little solo bike touring this summer and got a lot of judgment about that, from cyclists and non-cyclists. People assumed I didn't know what I was doing and hadn't packed basic things like food or a sleeping bag. Or assumed that I don't know how to fix anything, even a flat. Or assumed that I was very naive about the risks involved in touring. When non-cyclists did this stuff I tried to write it off as them just not understanding that someone could travel by bike. But it sucked to get this attitude from other cyclists. No one expressed concern about road safety, which is always my #1 worry and is data-grounded. Instead, they were concerned about me camping by myself. At crowded state parks. In the summer. Surrounded by families. Or scared that I'd run out of food or be cold at night. Yeah...

Permalink Reply by Tom Dworzanski on September 25, 2013 at 1:49pm

Lol I've already used it once IRL.




h' 1.0 said:

Because there aren't enough males participating in this discussion, I am going to chime in to ask:

Can I use that?

Jennifer on the lake said:

Drove me nuttier than cashew farm.

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