Hey Chainlink, know what I think is lame?

When a website that claims to be promoting local cycling in the city of Chicago has a banner ad for a site which is one of the many internet discount outlets that make it hard for local bike shops.

Way to go Chainlink, bravo. Is the advertising dollar worth making things harder on the local shops here in Chicago?

Is this site about serving the local community or is it about being a profit center for it's owner?

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Permalink Reply by Michael J Blane on January 11, 2012 at 5:33am

Here're links to a couple of Wikipedia pages that might explain the differences and owners:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's

Duppie said:

Get your facts straight:

Trader Joe's is owned by Aldi Nord

Aldi (US stores) is owned by Aldi Sud.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 11, 2012 at 5:40am

OK I was not aware of that but they share some of the same products and both treat employees differently.

Duppie said:

Get your facts straight:

Trader Joe's is owned by Aldi Nord

Aldi (US stores) is owned by Aldi Sud.

They are under separate ownership, and have separate operations.

notoriousDUG said:

Trader Joe's = Aldi

They do actually treat their employees rather well.

Tony Adams said:

ugh - they are hugely disappointing. Why do we need whole wheat pasta from Italy? I mean, sure, they make good pasta there, but who can tell the difference once one has slathered the stuff in sauce and veggies?

(I do shop there, but it is not convenient, so I don't shop there often.)

MagMileMarauder said:

Trader Joe's? I know you do...

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Permalink Reply by Melanie K on January 11, 2012 at 5:41am

Sorry, I am human, not a hooman. I think I stated my values clearly enough and my reasoning for same. Sorry you feel differently or maybe are reading into things too deeply. I also never stated or meant to imply that any human is better or worse than any other human.

Apparently what is being done now is not being done right. Maybe our planet should get in gear, all countries and continents should unite as one, and the world and all humans on it should all follow a single socialist economic system so that we all can be in a win/win situation. As the world stands today, it seems the only people in a win/win situation are large corporations.

James BlackHeron said:

Jobs kept FOR whom and FROM whom?

What is this us and them thing all about? Aren't we all hoomanz on this planet? -or are some hoomanz better than other hoomanz?

We are all "us" on this planet as far as I'm concerned. No hoomanz is more equal than other hoomanz.

Like Duppie said, we all make our purchasing decisions about where we spend our dollars according to personal values. I don't know what your values are Melanie -but my values state that all people are hoomanz and I'm going to spend my dollars on freely exchanging value for value on a zero-sum basis to those hoomanz that give me something that I value while I exchange, in kind, something that THEY value.

It's win/win when done right. My values say that when this is done right everyone on the planet wins -not just the folks I wave the same flag with. Just because someone is a USA-ian doesn't make them any better (or worse) in my mind than someone in any other corner of the earth.

Melanie said:

My point is that I would love to see more things manufactured locally and think that jobs are being kept and created because of it.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 11, 2012 at 5:41am

Interesting about Aldi Nord & Sud.

From Wikipedia

"When the two brothers split the company in 1960 over a dispute whether they should sell cigarettes at the till or not, they owned 300 shops with a cash flow of DM 90 million per year. In 1962, they introduced the Aldi brand name. Both groups are financially and legally separate since 1966, though they describe their relationship as a "friendly relation"; they will also occasionally appear as if they were a single enterprise, for example with certain house brands, or when negotiating withcontractor companies. Aldi expanded internationally in the 1970s and 1980s, experiencing a rapid expansion in the number of outlets after German reunification and the fall of the Iron Curtain. The brothers retired as CEOs in 1993 and gave most of their wealth to foundations."

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 11, 2012 at 5:44am

You are mixing issues here...

I will admit it; I would rather my dollar go to a company and worker in the US than in another country, I would rather see my dollar go to a company and worker here in Illinois than in another state and I would rather see a dollar spent in Chicago than outside of Chicago. Does this make me a bad person? Does it mean I hate people in other cities, states or countries or think I am better than them? No, it means I want to see the people and communities closest to me prosper because that is good for me and those around me.

Call me selfish or a bad person but that's the way I see it and that's the way I make my choices.

James BlackHeron said:

Jobs kept FOR whom and FROM whom?

What is this us and them thing all about? Aren't we all hoomanz on this planet? -or are some hoomanz better than other hoomanz?

We are all "us" on this planet as far as I'm concerned. No hoomanz is more equal than other hoomanz.

Like Duppie said, we all make our purchasing decisions about where we spend our dollars according to personal values. I don't know what your values are Melanie -but my values state that all people are hoomanz and I'm going to spend my dollars on freely exchanging value for value on a zero-sum basis to those hoomanz that give me something that I value while I exchange, in kind, something that THEY value.

It's win/win when done right. My values say that when this is done right everyone on the planet wins -not just the folks I wave the same flag with. Just because someone is a USA-ian doesn't make them any better (or worse) in my mind than someone in any other corner of the earth.

Melanie said:

My point is that I would love to see more things manufactured locally and think that jobs are being kept and created because of it.

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Permalink Reply by Melanie K on January 11, 2012 at 5:48am

@nDUG- You expressed many of my thoughts perfectly. Thanks.

notoriousDUG said:

You are mixing issues here...

I will admit it; I would rather my dollar go to a company and worker in the US than in another country, I would rather see my dollar go to a company and worker here in Illinois than in another state and I would rather see a dollar spent in Chicago than outside of Chicago. Does this make me a bad person? Does it mean I hate people in other cities, states or countries or think I am better than them? No, it means I want to see the people and communities closest to me prosper because that is good for me and those around me.

Call me selfish or a bad person but that's the way I see it and that's the way I make my choices.

James BlackHeron said:

Jobs kept FOR whom and FROM whom?

What is this us and them thing all about? Aren't we all hoomanz on this planet? -or are some hoomanz better than other hoomanz?

We are all "us" on this planet as far as I'm concerned. No hoomanz is more equal than other hoomanz.

Like Duppie said, we all make our purchasing decisions about where we spend our dollars according to personal values. I don't know what your values are Melanie -but my values state that all people are hoomanz and I'm going to spend my dollars on freely exchanging value for value on a zero-sum basis to those hoomanz that give me something that I value while I exchange, in kind, something that THEY value.

It's win/win when done right. My values say that when this is done right everyone on the planet wins -not just the folks I wave the same flag with. Just because someone is a USA-ian doesn't make them any better (or worse) in my mind than someone in any other corner of the earth.

Melanie said:

My point is that I would love to see more things manufactured locally and think that jobs are being kept and created because of it.

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Permalink Reply by Craig S. on January 11, 2012 at 5:50am

The thread that keeps on giving, love it. Well done folks.

I'll dip my toe into a little bit of general history. Regarding the deindustrialization of this land, it's a matter of economic cycles. The same thing happened to Europe during our Industrial Revolution. The same thing is beginning to happen in China and India as manufacturing firms look for even cheaper means of production.

Evolve or die and so far, the U.S. ain't doing a good job of evolving.

I can't wait for bacon to make an appearance in this thread.

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on January 11, 2012 at 5:51am

Well said.

notoriousDUG said:

[...] it means I want to see the people and communities closest to me prosper because that is good for me and those around me.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Sterling on January 11, 2012 at 5:55am

You can totally control raw materials/sourcing/purchasing. That's a cop out on your end. You only buy goods made in the US, and made of US material. The problem isn't sourcing, it's that if you restrict your purchasing to only items like that, there aren't many to buy, and they're all going to be horrendously expensive. I think I mentioned this in another thread; I have a few Filson jackets, made in Seattle using US wool. They are lovely, the warmest coats I own, and I'm sure they'll last me literally for 30 years. But the price is ridiculous. Even though they'll last you forever, you'd be hard pressed today to find a mass market for such a product.

Also those slave wages you're talking about are pretty low, by our standards, but they're often times decent, by the host nations' standards. So to simply say "they get paid $1 an hour in [nation], they'd be paid $12 an hour in the US, slave wages!" is rather hyperbolic, if the cost of living isn't comparable and the 'slave wage' is more than said person would make working elsewhere in their home country. Those jobs that would be 'kept' in the US are only good if they actually pay a decent wage, which many of them do not. The cost of labor here is simply so high that the we can really only manufacture high end shit, very durable products, or really niche stuff. None of which flies off shelves.

Melanie is right when she says it has nothing to do with race; it doesn't. But there's a nice correlation there. And yeah wtf w the made in china but named after Chicago neighborhoods.

Melanie said:

My point is that I would love to see more things manufactured locally and think that jobs are being kept and created because of it. I can't control where the raw materials are coming from to make stuff in the U.S.A., but I do like to support the manufacturing of goods in the United States and the jobs it can create by buying things that are made in U.S.A. as much as possible. Sometimes that isn't possible, but I have seen too many times where people's lives are devastated because the company they worked for all their lives decided to move manufacturing to Mexico, China, India, or wherever is cheaper, so that the bigwigs at the top can earn an extravagant income at the expense of firing and laying off American workers in favor of cheap, almost slave labor wages that are paid in other countries. My feelings are very strong on this, as I was born and raised in Michigan, near major manufacturing areas, and this happened to my family- who were hard working immigrants, working most of their lives in a manufacturing facility, which was closed down when the Company decided it was cheaper to manufacture elsewhere. Look at the unemployment rates in Michigan or take a visit to Detroit if you want to see what has happened there. I have no problem with people making a living, but I would prefer to support people making a living locally.

Second, my thoughts are that if you advertise your products as "Made in Chicago" and name them after neighborhoods in Chicago, then the products should be made where you say they are being made in. If they are made in China, name them something else from now on or drop the insinuation that they are being made locally, just because your main office is local.

That is what my issue is. Thank you.