The Chainlink

When a website that claims to be promoting local cycling in the city of Chicago has a banner ad for a site which is one of the many internet discount outlets that make it hard for local bike shops.

Way to go Chainlink, bravo.  Is the advertising dollar worth making things harder on the local shops here in Chicago?

Is this site about serving the local community or is it about being a profit center for it's owner?

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Speaking only for myself, here's where I'm coming from on this:

1) If chainlink is going to be successful, it's going to have to be a central and dominant online meeting place for most if not all of the Chicago cycling community.

2) A central online meeting place would need to include a significant presence from all corners of the Chicago cycling world-- utility cyclists, recreational cyclists, advocates, advocacy organizations, retailers, manufacturers, event planners, infrastructure planners/government representatives, bike-friendly business owners, etc.
3) If the shop folks are not at the table the chance of this site succeeding lessens significantly.

All of the above applies independently of any definition of success tied to generation of monetary revenue.

Once you embark upon a goal to make this site monetarily profitable, you turn up the heat on the need to be as encompassing of the Chicago bike community as possible-- Chicago is a large city but it remains to be seen whether it presents a large enough pool of interested users/supporters for commercial viability, given the relatively small subset of its population being targeted here.  I think you'd need to try to capture as near 100% of that population as absolutely possible to have a fighting chance.

I would also just like to have an easy way of locating goods and services in local shops :-)


notoriousDUG said:

because it appeared you and others wanted to hear from people in shops

I agree 100% but it can really suck when, as a shop owner or employee, try to participate.  All of a sudden everything you say or do becomes associated with the shop you work at.  Your association with a shop colors everyone's opinions and reactions regarding what you say.

h' said:

Speaking only for myself, here's where I'm coming from on this:

1) If chainlink is going to be successful, it's going to have to be a central and dominant online meeting place for most if not all of the Chicago cycling community.

2) A central online meeting place would need to include a significant presence from all corners of the Chicago cycling world-- utility cyclists, recreational cyclists, advocates, advocacy organizations, retailers, manufacturers, event planners, infrastructure planners/government representatives, bike-friendly business owners, etc.
3) If the shop folks are not at the table the chance of this site succeeding lessens significantly.

All of the above applies independently of any definition of success tied to generation of monetary revenue.

Once you embark upon a goal to make this site monetarily profitable, you turn up the heat on the need to be as encompassing of the Chicago bike community as possible-- Chicago is a large city but it remains to be seen whether it presents a large enough pool of interested users/supporters for commercial viability, given the relatively small subset of its population being targeted here.  I think you'd need to try to capture as near 100% of that population as absolutely possible to have a fighting chance.

I would also just like to have an easy way of locating goods and services in local shops :-)


notoriousDUG said:

because it appeared you and others wanted to hear from people in shops

Mmmmmm . . . maybe, maybe not.  I'm not sure I've seen this response across the board here.

I think in this particular case it's only being brought up because of your perceived attack on Julie.

Would it have been better to word your initial post more mildly, and end up with a forgotten thread on page 2 with only two replies? On the fence there, as this forum has been dead as a doornail for the past week and I'm almost feeling like any activity is good activity.  And Julie's no wilting flower . . .

I have to state that I agree with your points. I also think it's fair that you brought it up.

I just think they could have been stated civilly. If I were Julie, I couldn't take you seriously because of the level of rudeness in the remark. Regardless of it's actual statement or fact.

Someplace like The Chainlink isn't the same as any online forum. People know each other in real life. For a while, I've try to speak on here as if I were talking to others face to face. It's important to retain civility. I have to ask myself when I post, how would I act if someone said something like that to my face? 

notoriousDUG said:

Sorry you feel that way but I have never in the past gotten a much in the way of a response when trying to talk to Julie directly.

Adam "Cezar" Jenkins said:

I understand your sentiment Dug, but the way you said it was assholish and trollish. It's full of anger, sarcasm, and unfair accusations. 

I had thought better of you. I really did.

I think you owe an apology to Julie. You could have emailed her and asked instead of trolling your way about it. I think she would have changed it for you, or eased your concerns. Even publicly you could have been tactful about it, but you weren't, you were and ass.

I am seriously disappointed in you.

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

So you put up a post of discount wheel build from your shop, basically a free advert and your shop doesn't even advertise on the site.You want free advertisement for your stuff by having Julie subsidize it out of her own pocket.Maybe if more LBS advertised on the site.She wouldn't need national advertisements.

Joel, do you even know me beyond this forum?  Are you under the impression that I just sit on my hands at home and do nothing to help anyone?  I've spent a lot of time volunteering for various organizations and spent time working more than a few bike events the last few years.  Just because you haven't seen it does not mean I'm not doing anything to help.

Julie has done a lot but I think saying that she has done more than anyone else is very possibly a stretch.  I'm not trying to marginalize anything she has done but I think that there are organizations who have been around much longer and done much more.



Joel said:

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

It was probably a stretch to say she has done more than anyone you know.  If you are happy to volunteer for other cycling things, why don't you think of a constructive way to solve what you see as a problem?  

notoriousDUG said:

Joel, do you even know me beyond this forum?  Are you under the impression that I just sit on my hands at home and do nothing to help anyone?  I've spent a lot of time volunteering for various organizations and spent time working more than a few bike events the last few years.  Just because you haven't seen it does not mean I'm not doing anything to help.

Julie has done a lot but I think saying that she has done more than anyone else is very possibly a stretch.  I'm not trying to marginalize anything she has done but I think that there are organizations who have been around much longer and done much more.



Joel said:

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

I already have, pursue more local advertising.

Beyond that it's not my business and not my choice, or job, to plan how it runs.  It can do what it wants but I reserve the right to dislike it's decisions.

Joel said:

It was probably a stretch to say she has done more than anyone you know.  If you are happy to volunteer for other cycling things, why don't you think of a constructive way to solve what you see as a problem?  

notoriousDUG said:

Joel, do you even know me beyond this forum?  Are you under the impression that I just sit on my hands at home and do nothing to help anyone?  I've spent a lot of time volunteering for various organizations and spent time working more than a few bike events the last few years.  Just because you haven't seen it does not mean I'm not doing anything to help.

Julie has done a lot but I think saying that she has done more than anyone else is very possibly a stretch.  I'm not trying to marginalize anything she has done but I think that there are organizations who have been around much longer and done much more.



Joel said:

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!



notoriousDUG said:

 

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

 

If I worked at a coffee shop, auto shop or sat at home on the public dole I would have made exactly the same post.  My feelings on this subject have been the same for several years before I ever worked at a bike shop.

I have no doubt that you're speaking on your own behalf but when you have a thread about the deals that rapid transit is offering on wheel builds and another calling out Julie and chainlink next to each other on the front page, it's hard to not to conflate the two and somehow thing that you might be talking for rapid transit.  It might be unfair but unfortunately that's the way things are sometimes.

Steel Driver said:

Dan Korn, you've just been unaware, very easily rectified.

http://www.thechainlink.org/page/support-the-chainlink

 

Many users have probably been unaware they can support Chainlink directly!


You're right, I never knew that page existed. There should be a link to it from somewhere obvious, like the main page. That might elicit more donations, which may lessen the need for ads.

And I could be wrong again, but it looks like the particular ad which precipitated this thread is no longer visible.

It's been on the front page for a while now. To the right. I think it's on every page.

Dan Korn said:

Steel Driver said:

Dan Korn, you've just been unaware, very easily rectified.

http://www.thechainlink.org/page/support-the-chainlink

 

Many users have probably been unaware they can support Chainlink directly!


You're right, I never knew that page existed. There should be a link to it from somewhere obvious, like the main page. That might elicit more donations, which may lessen the need for ads.

And I could be wrong again, but it looks like the particular ad which precipitated this thread is no longer visible.

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