Health Care Reform
I guess a lot of people are going to want to put in their two cents and info on how Health Care Reform effects cyclists so here you go.
Views: 146
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jessica on
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I did not write this, but I agree with every word:
"The 950 billion price tag and the estimate that the program will save 150 billion over ten years is a lie.
First the taxes start immediately, the government collects taxes for four years prior to any programs kicking in. The CBO can only project for 10 years and cannot take into account that taxes are collected for 10 years but the program is only running for 6 years.
Most of the savings are double counted meaning the money they are saying is going to pay for the health care bill ise already counted towards paying off other government debt. The money is already spent yet they are counting towards the health bill. Amazing accounting gimmicks.
Is it legal for the government to require you to buy health insurance? If you do not have it the IRS will be knocking on your door.
Whether you believe in abortion or not the health bill provides for federally funded abortions.
Illegal immigrants are covered. There is no provision in the bill to prove citizenship to buy insurance. I discussed this with my congress rep (Giffords) who could not lie her way out of it but did her best.
The bill will drive private insurers out of business leaving the government to take over the entire health care industry.
How does this happen? The provision in the bill that insurance companies cannot deny you for pre-existing conditions, or charge more. Example - I own a vehicle but did not buy insurance. I chose to pay the penalty for not having insurance (like the health care bill allows), I get into an accident that costs $500,000. I can now call my insurance company, get coverage mandated by law that now pays the $500,000 for me. Sound fair? How can any company operate like that? Bye-bye private insurance and hello government controlled insurance.
Obama likes to spout that private insurers deny claims left and right. Government run Medicare and Medicaid have denied more insurance claims than any private insurance company.
A recent poll of doctors showed if Obama care passes 29.7 percent are retiring, leaving the medical profession. The same poll showed over 40 percent would leave if the government option was included (it is on its way eventually).
So the government is going to add 29 million people to health insurance, doctors are going to leave in droves but yet medical care is going to be cheaper, better, you won’t have to wait for treatment and it will save billions. If you believe this after seeing the government run social security, Medicare, Medicaid, post office, Fannie mae, Freddie mac and numerous other entitlement programs that are bankrupting the country, you, I, our kids, our kids kids then you are a fool.
The backroom deals or what amounts to bribery are disgusting. You or I would be in jail if we attempted this in the real world. Cornhusker kickback, Louisana bailout, money to build a hospital in Connecticut, water being allowed to finally flow to farmers in southern California (funny how the two congressman are now voting yes). The list goes on and we will probably never hear of most of them.
Did you know that hidden in the bill is a provision that gives the government total control over student loans? (Except the one private bank in South Dakota that is exempt and allowed to participate in the student loan program). And go figure that the congressman of the bank’s district is now voting yes on the health bill.
So know the government is on the hook for all defaulted student loans. Loans made to high risk borrowers by the government with out money. (Sounds something similar to the sub-prime loan crisis created by the government and the Fair housing act.)
Last and not least the government now has all say and control over college funding and students education options. More Government control.
Hope and Change? Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot."
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Permalink Reply by T.C. O'Rourke on
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"I did not write this..."
O.K., I'll guess: Rush Limbaugh?
Jessica said:I did not write this, but I agree with every word:
"The 950 billion price tag and the estimate that the program will save 150 billion over ten years is a lie.
First the taxes start immediately, the government collects taxes for four years prior to any programs kicking in. The CBO can only project for 10 years and cannot take into account that taxes are collected for 10 years but the program is only running for 6 years.
Most of the savings are double counted meaning the money they are saying is going to pay for the health care bill ise already counted towards paying off other government debt. The money is already spent yet they are counting towards the health bill. Amazing accounting gimmicks.
Is it legal for the government to require you to buy health insurance? If you do not have it the IRS will be knocking on your door.
Whether you believe in abortion or not the health bill provides for federally funded abortions.
Illegal immigrants are covered. There is no provision in the bill to prove citizenship to buy insurance. I discussed this with my congress rep (Giffords) who could not lie her way out of it but did her best.
The bill will drive private insurers out of business leaving the government to take over the entire health care industry.
How does this happen? The provision in the bill that insurance companies cannot deny you for pre-existing conditions, or charge more. Example - I own a vehicle but did not buy insurance. I chose to pay the penalty for not having insurance (like the health care bill allows), I get into an accident that costs $500,000. I can now call my insurance company, get coverage mandated by law that now pays the $500,000 for me. Sound fair? How can any company operate like that? Bye-bye private insurance and hello government controlled insurance.
Obama likes to spout that private insurers deny claims left and right. Government run Medicare and Medicaid have denied more insurance claims than any private insurance company.
A recent poll of doctors showed if Obama care passes 29.7 percent are retiring, leaving the medical profession. The same poll showed over 40 percent would leave if the government option was included (it is on its way eventually).
So the government is going to add 29 million people to health insurance, doctors are going to leave in droves but yet medical care is going to be cheaper, better, you won’t have to wait for treatment and it will save billions. If you believe this after seeing the government run social security, Medicare, Medicaid, post office, Fannie mae, Freddie mac and numerous other entitlement programs that are bankrupting the country, you, I, our kids, our kids kids then you are a fool.
The backroom deals or what amounts to bribery are disgusting. You or I would be in jail if we attempted this in the real world. Cornhusker kickback, Louisana bailout, money to build a hospital in Connecticut, water being allowed to finally flow to farmers in southern California (funny how the two congressman are now voting yes). The list goes on and we will probably never hear of most of them.
Did you know that hidden in the bill is a provision that gives the government total control over student loans? (Except the one private bank in South Dakota that is exempt and allowed to participate in the student loan program). And go figure that the congressman of the bank’s district is now voting yes on the health bill.
So know the government is on the hook for all defaulted student loans. Loans made to high risk borrowers by the government with out money. (Sounds something similar to the sub-prime loan crisis created by the government and the Fair housing act.)
Last and not least the government now has all say and control over college funding and students education options. More Government control.
Hope and Change? Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot."
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Permalink Reply by Joe TV on
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Here's a link to some facts: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000846-503544.html
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Permalink Reply by Patrick O'Connor on
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Before anyone posts more "facts", just remember that the plural of anecdote is not fact.
This is the first and last I'm going to say in this topic. I wish there were a way to ignore threads through ning.
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Permalink Reply by Vilda on
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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319
It's Reuters so believe it or don't believe it.
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No sir.
Does anyone see how there WILL BE NO PRIVATE OPTION? There are intentionally bankrupting them, within the scope of the 'law'. What a load of bullshit.
Put a cap on malpractice lawsuits. THAT'S a way to reform. Remove state borders so they can compete across the US. THAT'S reform. What they're doing now is terrifying, considering they don't even know what exactly the bill contains! Then they're shoving it down my throat.
For the love of god, just TAX PEOPLE if you want them to pay. People aren't going to pay for monthly insurance if they can't be denied coverage when something bad happens. Of course you'd elect to pay the $300 fine rather than $100 a month. People aren't dumb. Then when they get run over by a bus, quick call and instate your insurance. The insurance companies can not run like that. Period.
FTR, I'm 100% supportive of the healthcare system in Canada, and Europe. What we are attempting to do is NOTHING like it. Obama is so desperate to be able to say that he 'did something' that he's trying so hard to push this through. What on earth is the rush? Take a second to actually think about things, and maybe work on the inflation rate and jobs for awhile. (Well, since he's printing more money to make this happen, I doubt he gives a rip about inflation...) The way it is written will crush what they *say* they're trying to do.
T.C. O'Rourke said:"I did not write this..."
O.K., I'll guess: Rush Limbaugh?
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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Usually when I get this kind of maddening rage going inside my head, I drink some Eucalyptus tea. Very soothing for the mind. I suggest you give that a try....
Jessica said:No sir.
Does anyone see how there WILL BE NO PRIVATE OPTION? There are intentionally bankrupting them, within the scope of the 'law'. What a load of bullshit.
Put a cap on malpractice lawsuits. THAT'S a way to reform. Remove state borders so they can compete across the US. THAT'S reform. What they're doing now is terrifying, considering they don't even know what exactly the bill contains! Then they're shoving it down my throat.
For the love of god, just TAX PEOPLE if you want them to pay. People aren't going to pay for monthly insurance if they can't be denied coverage when something bad happens. Of course you'd elect to pay the $300 fine rather than $100 a month. People aren't dumb. Then when they get run over by a bus, quick call and instate your insurance. The insurance companies can not run like that. Period.
FTR, I'm 100% supportive of the healthcare system in Canada, and Europe. What we are attempting to do is NOTHING like it. Obama is so desperate to be able to say that he 'did something' that he's trying so hard to push this through. What on earth is the rush? Take a second to actually think about things, and maybe work on the inflation rate and jobs for awhile. (Well, since he's printing more money to make this happen, I doubt he gives a rip about inflation...) The way it is written will crush what they *say* they're trying to do.
T.C. O'Rourke said:"I did not write this..."
O.K., I'll guess: Rush Limbaugh?
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Ha, I'm not that mad about it. I'm upset, sure, but that's because our politicians officially don't give a shit about us anymore. (approval of the bill vs how they voted)
We'll see how it all turns out I guess. Heyooohhh! Canada here I come!
PS: Instead of commenting on my perceived attitude, can you comment on the bill? Or how it was passed? Or what it contains? Are you happy with it?
I'm pro universal heathcare, just not THIS healthcare.
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Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on
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What is Single-Payer Healthcare?
Single-Payer/Improved Medicare for All - 2010 Illinois Statewide Strategy Conference
Join us to build a unified statewide movement and set our focus for the year ahead. Speakers, discussions, workshops, camaraderie. All experienced, committed single-payer activists are invited!
Facilitator: Katie Robbins, National Organizer, Healthcare-Now
When: Saturday, March 27, 2010 – 9:00 am to 5:00 pm
Where: Augustana Lutheran Church, 5500 S. Woodlawn Avenue, Chicago, IL (Enter on 55th Street. Wheelchair accessible)
Pre-registration is required. Please send your name, organization (if any), e-mail, and telephone number to Jim Rhodes, jrrhodes60@gmail.com or 773-645-7070. State that you wish to attend the March 27 strategy conference. (We’ll share your information with other attendees only.)
No fee! Suggested donation to cover light breakfast and lunch: $10, at the conference.
Travel subsidies available. If you live outside the greater Chicago area and need assistance with travel expenses, please contact Jim Rhodes at jrrhodes60@gmail.com or 773-645-7070.
Need housing? Want to offer housing? Contact Fabian Necheles: nechfamily@ameritech.net or 773.744.8589. (Please specify wheelchair accessibility.)
Organizations who wish to be sponsors must: send at least one representative; make a financial contribution to the conference; disseminate the final report to your constituency. Benefits include display-table space at the conference; listing on the conference agenda and report. Individual contributions made in advance will also be acknowledged in the conference report. Contact Jim Rhodes: jrrhodes60@gmail.com or 773-645-7070. Questions? Contact the conference coordinator, Sonja Rotenberg, at sonja.rotenberg@gmail.com or 773-931-7581.
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Permalink Reply by Kellie on
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As someone who actually practices some bankruptcy law, there is nothing to indicate that the insurance companies will be bankrupted (God forbid!). And even if they did, I'd rather see that, then the millions of individuals who have to file BK because of their skyrocketing medical bills, as it is the #2 reason.
I will admit that the bill is not perfect and there are elements that I don't like, but I think we should focus on the real ones. For example, there is nothing in it indicating that illegal immigrants will be covered under healthcare (again, God forbid!). And even if there were, there is argument out there that elements of the Constitution are intended to cover immigrants. Also, there is nothing in it to say that the feds will be paying for abortions (any entity forbid!). And even there were, the Hyde Act covers this element and it has been stated repeatedly that no element of this legislation is supposed to fly in the face of existing law.
I fear the fear mongers more than the legislation.
Jessica said:No sir.
Does anyone see how there WILL BE NO PRIVATE OPTION? There are intentionally bankrupting them, within the scope of the 'law'. What a load of bullshit.
Put a cap on malpractice lawsuits. THAT'S a way to reform. Remove state borders so they can compete across the US. THAT'S reform. What they're doing now is terrifying, considering they don't even know what exactly the bill contains! Then they're shoving it down my throat.
For the love of god, just TAX PEOPLE if you want them to pay. People aren't going to pay for monthly insurance if they can't be denied coverage when something bad happens. Of course you'd elect to pay the $300 fine rather than $100 a month. People aren't dumb. Then when they get run over by a bus, quick call and instate your insurance. The insurance companies can not run like that. Period.
FTR, I'm 100% supportive of the healthcare system in Canada, and Europe. What we are attempting to do is NOTHING like it. Obama is so desperate to be able to say that he 'did something' that he's trying so hard to push this through. What on earth is the rush? Take a second to actually think about things, and maybe work on the inflation rate and jobs for awhile. (Well, since he's printing more money to make this happen, I doubt he gives a rip about inflation...) The way it is written will crush what they *say* they're trying to do.
T.C. O'Rourke said:"I did not write this..."
O.K., I'll guess: Rush Limbaugh?
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Jessica said:PS: Instead of commenting on my perceived attitude, can you comment on the bill? Or how it was passed? Or what it contains? Are you happy with it?
I would, if I had only the slightest idea that this would be a serious discussion. But I doubt it will. And that is not a comment on you personally, but more on the healthcare debate in general. The debate has become so polarized that both sides can only communicate using a megaphone and yelling generalizations at each other.
Comparing our President to a village idiot? Really? Is that what this debate has come to?
Thanks for the invite, but I'll pass.
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