Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael A on January 20, 2014 at 12:04pm

The roll system looks like it will get you close , but a pro fitter will do a much more detailed job. Pedal and cleat positioning, saddle height all make a HUGE difference. Now is a good time to shop for a new bike because the sales people are much less busy at this time of the year. They have more time to spend with you without being overwhelmed by the number of customers.

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Permalink Reply by Christine (5.0) on January 20, 2014 at 12:08pm

Good to know.  It's going to be a "get around town" sort of bike, not a $$$ racing bicycle.  He works from home so he won't need it for commuting, but it will be used for most other transportation; currently the way we get around is he uses my bike (which at least is a men's large frame, hurrah for him having a tall girlfriend :p) and I use Divvy; although sometimes it's the reverse.  Non-optimal, but it works well enough for getting to dinner.

So, cleat positioning won't really matter, since I suspect he won't be using cycling cleats.

Michael A said:

The roll system looks like it will get you close , but a pro fitter will do a much more detailed job. Pedal and cleat positioning, saddle height all make a HUGE difference. Now is a good time to shop for a new bike because the sales people are much less busy at this time of the year. They have more time to spend with you without being overwhelmed by the number of customers.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 20, 2014 at 12:42pm

Any decent bike shop should be able to get your husband fitted to the correct commuter bike that is right for him.  If they can't/wont take the time to do this then move onto another shop that will.  This is a large part of what you are paying for when you drop down retail cash at a brick & mortar bike shop.

Unless you or your husband are going to be doing some serious road or race riding then a professional fitting is probably going to be way over-kill at this time.  If he finds himself riding longer and longer rides frequently and wants to upgrade his bike then that is the time to drop down more money one a custom fit.  These custom fitters are adjusting stuff to the fraction of a mm here.  I just don't think you need that.   

There is a lot of debate regarding the art vs. the science of bike fitting but at the basic commuter level (especially for a beginner) there really isn't much that a high-end fitting would be able to do for someone, IMHO, that any bike shop can't do as part of the bike buying process.  Even a high-end super-fit would be worthless after a season due to people's riding style changing as they get more fit and branch out into the type of riding/type of bike they like best. 

If you live right next to Kozy then buying a bike from Kozy makes the most sense to me.   Bikes need to be kept up and need a certain degree of tuning, a well as breaking-in.  When you buy a bike from a bike shop they will usually give you support and a break-in tuneup a little down the road.   You will build a customer/shop relationship and they will be as happy to see you come in their door as you will be happy to have them close by.   I'm not saying a local bike shop won't be happy to see anyone come in their door with a bike they bought elsewhere, (unless you bring them some low-end department store bike that wore out the third time you took it out for a ride) but shops remember their customers and the folks who bought from them and want to keep them coming back.  

Having a good shop right next door is a good thing. If you aren't someone who can tune their own bikes, or do more heavy repairs then the time to start a good relationship with your local bike shop (LBS) is now.

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Permalink Reply by Michael A on January 20, 2014 at 7:12pm

a good fit is every bit as important on this kind of bike even if he does not use cleats. proper saddle height and reach will make for a much more comfortable ride and he will enjoy riding and end up using it more. A poor fit can cause knee, back, neck and hand pain. Most shops can get you close enough that it will lower the likelihood of this. If he does have pain or discomfort a fit to bike serves would be a godsend.

Good luck

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 21, 2014 at 6:54am

This shows just how little you know about bike fitting or different bike shops here in Chicago...

James BlackHeron said:

Any decent bike shop should be able to get your husband fitted to the correct commuter bike that is right for him.  If they can't/wont take the time to do this then move onto another shop that will.  This is a large part of what you are paying for when you drop down retail cash at a brick & mortar bike shop.

Unless you or your husband are going to be doing some serious road or race riding then a professional fitting is probably going to be way over-kill at this time.  If he finds himself riding longer and longer rides frequently and wants to upgrade his bike then that is the time to drop down more money one a custom fit.  These custom fitters are adjusting stuff to the fraction of a mm here.  I just don't think you need that.   

There is a lot of debate regarding the art vs. the science of bike fitting but at the basic commuter level (especially for a beginner) there really isn't much that a high-end fitting would be able to do for someone, IMHO, that any bike shop can't do as part of the bike buying process.  Even a high-end super-fit would be worthless after a season due to people's riding style changing as they get more fit and branch out into the type of riding/type of bike they like best. 

If you live right next to Kozy then buying a bike from Kozy makes the most sense to me.   Bikes need to be kept up and need a certain degree of tuning, a well as breaking-in.  When you buy a bike from a bike shop they will usually give you support and a break-in tuneup a little down the road.   You will build a customer/shop relationship and they will be as happy to see you come in their door as you will be happy to have them close by.   I'm not saying a local bike shop won't be happy to see anyone come in their door with a bike they bought elsewhere, (unless you bring them some low-end department store bike that wore out the third time you took it out for a ride) but shops remember their customers and the folks who bought from them and want to keep them coming back.  

Having a good shop right next door is a good thing. If you aren't someone who can tune their own bikes, or do more heavy repairs then the time to start a good relationship with your local bike shop (LBS) is now.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 21, 2014 at 7:15am

OK, so here's my .02 on the subject:

First off lets address the Roll: Perfect Fit body scan thing; it is total crap.  It's a stupid piece of technology used to allow people with little to no bike fit training or knowledge to size people to a bike.  It will get you close on what bike should fit but it is not going to take into account things like flexibility and riders positioning preference; which is the most important part of a real bike fit.  A good fitter knows that it is not about meeting a specific set of measurements considered ideal but finding a position that is 'right' by the fit rules but compromises those 'rules' to compensate for rider flexibility and personal preference.

Most bike shops should be able to get you close but some are going to be better than others at it.  I also think it is important to note that a 'real' bike fit, in my opinion, can only be done after the rider has been on the bike for sometime.  Initially you can only get somebody into a position that looks good initially but they need to ride it for a while to see what feels good and what doesn't so the fitter knows where to go from there.

At 6'3" unless he has unusual leg/arm to torso sizing it really should not be that hard to get a bike that fits him well.  If he is currently experiencing lots of discomfort it is either due to a very poor fit, possibly the wrong size bike, or he is just not riding enough for his body to get used to it.  It sounds mean to say but if you only ride infrequently you may never be able to get comfortable on the bike.

If you want to get him set up on a bike that he will be most comfortable go to several shops. Take the bike he has now with and have them look at him on that and talk about what he finds uncomfortable about it.  From there they should be able to determine if adjusting what he has or moving to another bike is best.  If it is moving to another bike try and ride as many as possible, at a couple of different shops, and see what feels best.  Not only are those shops going to have different bikes but they may also each put him in different positions.

As far as what shop to go to I don't really want to make a recommendation, beyond coming to Oak Park to see me, or say not to go anywhere but I will give you my own bike buying guidelines:

1. Make sure that the shop is selling you the bike you need/want, not the bike that have.  Sad but true there are places out there that will sell you a bike they have instead of ordering you what is what you need.

2. If they are not asking you tons of questions be very wary of what they try to sell you.  If they are not asking you how often and how far you ride, what type of riding you do, what type you hope to do, what you like/dislike about what you have, etc... they are not truly working to put you on the perfect bike for you.

3. ALWAYS test ride, as in a real ride outside.  Riding in a trainer is a great way to get a fit but it is going to tell YOU nothing about how the actual bike feels to you. 

4. Do not shop on price or clearance alone, shop on what feels good to ride.  I don't know what your budget is but I do know that buying a $800 bike you ride all the time is a MUCH better deal than buying a $500 bike you hardly ever ride.

Good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Joe B on January 21, 2014 at 7:41am

Hi my name is Joe Babiarz and I am the GM at roll: on Clybourn. I would love the opportunity to take you through our fit process. I can assure you that our fit system will get you set up properly with a custom and comfortable fit. We do take into consideration flexibility, riding style, bike selection, and overall needs of the rider. It is much more than just a machine.

To the gentleman who does not believe in our fit I would ask that you also come by and let me introduce myself and our theory on fit. As a supporter of local bike shops I would hope that you have been through our system before you step out and say its no good.

Please feel free to email me with any questions or to set up an appointment. Joebabiarz@roll-online.com

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 21, 2014 at 8:05am

Well since somebody brought it up...

I have been fit by your system and the result was not very good,I don't knock something I haven't tried.

I'll come by Thursday and you guys can try it again but I'm not making an appointment so you can have the guy in the know there; it's easy to look good when you're prepared but how does a random guy on your floor do?

Also, and I'll say this because you are the GM, Roll: is NOT a local bike shop it is part of a large chain based in Ohio.  I consider a local shop to be one owned by somebody who I may actually see on the street riding.  I also consider Roll:'s, 'Bike shop for the rest of us' concept to be insulting to the many, many excellent shops here in Chicago who work hard to offer an inviting and comfortable atmosphere to people new to cycling.

Joe B said:

Hi my name is Joe Babiarz and I am the GM at roll: on Clybourn. I would love the opportunity to take you through our fit process. I can assure you that our fit system will get you set up properly with a custom and comfortable fit. We do take into consideration flexibility, riding style, bike selection, and overall needs of the rider. It is much more than just a machine.

To the gentleman who does not believe in our fit I would ask that you also come by and let me introduce myself and our theory on fit. As a supporter of local bike shops I would hope that you have been through our system before you step out and say its no good.

Please feel free to email me with any questions or to set up an appointment. Joebabiarz@roll-online.com

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Permalink Reply by Bill Nedza on January 22, 2014 at 3:14am

DUG, I suggest you go for a ride with Joe when you have a chance -- maybe you haven't seen him on the street riding because you haven't met him. And maybe you didn't see all the guys affiliated with roll: out racing this past season either.  These guys ride.   roll: is not part of a "large chain" - they have 4 shops (same # as Kozy's), 3 of which are in Ohio.  There are indeed excellent shops in Chicago, no doubt, but having checked out roll: and gotten to know their concept I think they do a very good job, are knowledgeable, and will appeal to a lot of people.  As far as fitting, their fit system does a good job, but even then they know to talk to someone about their riding style, what's comfortable, etc.  When I bought my high-end road bike the guy at the shop I went to just tweaked the saddle height a bit, said "how's that feel?", and that was it -- I adjusted things on my own a little, bit their was no real fitting.  I know people who pay hundreds of dollars for "professional" fits and good for them if it indeed works, but I also know a few people who paid hundreds and ended up with knee problems.  So, I think the lesson is, whatever shop you go to, and whatever system they use to fit you, you as the rider need to have input into it, and a good shop knows how to work with someone.  Bottom line is I think roll: does a fine job.  And seriously, you should get out and ride with Joe and the other roll: folks.  

notoriousDUG said:

Well since somebody brought it up...

I have been fit by your system and the result was not very good,I don't knock something I haven't tried.

I'll come by Thursday and you guys can try it again but I'm not making an appointment so you can have the guy in the know there; it's easy to look good when you're prepared but how does a random guy on your floor do?

Also, and I'll say this because you are the GM, Roll: is NOT a local bike shop it is part of a large chain based in Ohio.  I consider a local shop to be one owned by somebody who I may actually see on the street riding.  I also consider Roll:'s, 'Bike shop for the rest of us' concept to be insulting to the many, many excellent shops here in Chicago who work hard to offer an inviting and comfortable atmosphere to people new to cycling.

Joe B said:

Hi my name is Joe Babiarz and I am the GM at roll: on Clybourn. I would love the opportunity to take you through our fit process. I can assure you that our fit system will get you set up properly with a custom and comfortable fit. We do take into consideration flexibility, riding style, bike selection, and overall needs of the rider. It is much more than just a machine.

To the gentleman who does not believe in our fit I would ask that you also come by and let me introduce myself and our theory on fit. As a supporter of local bike shops I would hope that you have been through our system before you step out and say its no good.

Please feel free to email me with any questions or to set up an appointment. Joebabiarz@roll-online.com

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Permalink Reply by Liz W. Durham on January 22, 2014 at 6:52am

I agree that you might want to visit a couple of bike shops, especially since you stated you have had mixed experiences at your LBS.

That being said, you might find a range of experience of the staff within each shop you visit. For example, at the shop where I work all sales staff have had at least basic training in sizing a bike to the customer. We all have also been riding for many years so have personal experience and experience from being part of the cycling community. I feel confident that any of our staff could help with basic sizing. We also have two sales staff (myself included) who have additional training and certification in fit services. When a customer seems to have complicated fit or comfort issues they are often redirected to us. And we are more than happy to work with a customer on bike fit and can often keep it more contained than the time and cost of full fit services.

I would hope that you find a shop willing to set you up with the sales staff who has the right training and experience to match your needs. As DUG said, they should be asking you many questions about what you ride (or want to ride), what your riding needs are, what your current discomforts are, etc. They should also take the time to listen to your responses. 

And, also as DUG said, if you haven't been riding regularly and consistently, all bikes might be uncomfortable. I always make clear to my customers that they really need to get out and ride their bikes consistently to have a clearer sense of fit. At our shop, they can take a test ride and they also have a 30 day comfort guarantee. I believe some other shops might also offer something similar. Of course we hope to get you out the door on the right bike in the first place though!

It sounds like Roll is reaching out to you since you posted. They might be one of the shops you should check out. And if you are ever up in Evanston you can certainly stop by where I work. I would love to help your boyfriend find a great bike that works for him. 

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 22, 2014 at 11:39am

Kozy's is not a bike shop, Kozy's is a large retail shop who happens to sell bikes.

Bill Nedza said:

DUG, I suggest you go for a ride with Joe when you have a chance -- maybe you haven't seen him on the street riding because you haven't met him. And maybe you didn't see all the guys affiliated with roll: out racing this past season either.  These guys ride.   roll: is not part of a "large chain" - they have 4 shops (same # as Kozy's), 3 of which are in Ohio.  There are indeed excellent shops in Chicago, no doubt, but having checked out roll: and gotten to know their concept I think they do a very good job, are knowledgeable, and will appeal to a lot of people.  As far as fitting, their fit system does a good job, but even then they know to talk to someone about their riding style, what's comfortable, etc.  When I bought my high-end road bike the guy at the shop I went to just tweaked the saddle height a bit, said "how's that feel?", and that was it -- I adjusted things on my own a little, bit their was no real fitting.  I know people who pay hundreds of dollars for "professional" fits and good for them if it indeed works, but I also know a few people who paid hundreds and ended up with knee problems.  So, I think the lesson is, whatever shop you go to, and whatever system they use to fit you, you as the rider need to have input into it, and a good shop knows how to work with someone.  Bottom line is I think roll: does a fine job.  And seriously, you should get out and ride with Joe and the other roll: folks.  

notoriousDUG said:

Well since somebody brought it up...

I have been fit by your system and the result was not very good,I don't knock something I haven't tried.

I'll come by Thursday and you guys can try it again but I'm not making an appointment so you can have the guy in the know there; it's easy to look good when you're prepared but how does a random guy on your floor do?

Also, and I'll say this because you are the GM, Roll: is NOT a local bike shop it is part of a large chain based in Ohio.  I consider a local shop to be one owned by somebody who I may actually see on the street riding.  I also consider Roll:'s, 'Bike shop for the rest of us' concept to be insulting to the many, many excellent shops here in Chicago who work hard to offer an inviting and comfortable atmosphere to people new to cycling.

Joe B said:

Hi my name is Joe Babiarz and I am the GM at roll: on Clybourn. I would love the opportunity to take you through our fit process. I can assure you that our fit system will get you set up properly with a custom and comfortable fit. We do take into consideration flexibility, riding style, bike selection, and overall needs of the rider. It is much more than just a machine.

To the gentleman who does not believe in our fit I would ask that you also come by and let me introduce myself and our theory on fit. As a supporter of local bike shops I would hope that you have been through our system before you step out and say its no good.

Please feel free to email me with any questions or to set up an appointment. Joebabiarz@roll-online.com

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