Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 8:37am

Well said. I agree. I mean superior only in the specific qualities being compared. Most, if not all, retarded people are superior to me in some aspect or another.


Rich S said:

Kindness. Generosity. Compassion. Caring. There are plenty of people that value these qualities above intellectual capacity in a human being. And an intellectually challenged individual is one who could easily have these qualities in greater abundance than another with greater IQ. Therefore making the intellectually challenged individual superior. Or at least more pleasant to spend time with since they won't be tripping all over their superiority and what not. 

Hodor! 

Tristan Jackson said:

Blah blah blah

But I don't think you can reasonably assert that being abled isn't superior to being disabled. 

Blah blah blah

Permalink Reply by Chitown_Mike on August 5, 2014 at 8:42am

Tristan, welcome to Chicago, where the only opinion that matters or is right is the one shouted loudest.  You have lost, you're wrong, you deserve to be tied to a bag of rocks and thrown into the lake.  The execution will be live broadcast online for all to see he-who-uses-the-words-not-meant-to-be-used expunged from human record.

For any that start to cry, it is called tongue-in-cheek humor, no one is dying.  If that offends you put on your big boy/girl panties....unless you have a bladder/anal problem which in that case wear your Depends.

Tristan Jackson said:

I started it because I think saying good morning is superior than saying on your left in many instances. I also think, in general, being kind to people, including retarded people, is superior to being mean. I don't see using the word retarded to mean stupid as being mean. Difference of opinion?


David Altenburg said:

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 8:44am

Oh and I god damn love Hodor btw!


Rich S said:

Kindness. Generosity. Compassion. Caring. There are plenty of people that value these qualities above intellectual capacity in a human being. And an intellectually challenged individual is one who could easily have these qualities in greater abundance than another with greater IQ. Therefore making the intellectually challenged individual superior. Or at least more pleasant to spend time with since they won't be tripping all over their superiority and what not. 

Hodor! 

Tristan Jackson said:

Blah blah blah

But I don't think you can reasonably assert that being abled isn't superior to being disabled. 

Blah blah blah

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on August 5, 2014 at 8:47am

Or, you know, we could just try to have sympathy, empathy, critical thinking skills and the desire not to hurt other people with needless slurs! 

Chitown_Mike said:

Tristan, welcome to Chicago, where the only opinion that matters or is right is the one shouted loudest.  You have lost, you're wrong, you deserve to be tied to a bag of rocks and thrown into the lake.  The execution will be live broadcast online for all to see he-who-uses-the-words-not-meant-to-be-used expunged from human record.

For any that start to cry, it is called tongue-in-cheek humor, no one is dying.  If that offends you put on your big boy/girl panties....unless you have a bladder/anal problem which in that case wear your Depends.

Tristan Jackson said:

I started it because I think saying good morning is superior than saying on your left in many instances. I also think, in general, being kind to people, including retarded people, is superior to being mean. I don't see using the word retarded to mean stupid as being mean. Difference of opinion?


David Altenburg said:

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

Permalink Reply by XndeX on August 5, 2014 at 8:49am

this is one of those times when the only winning move is not to play!

Permalink Reply by Rachel K on August 5, 2014 at 9:00am

Did the DICTIONARY cop out really just come up???

Dude.

Seriously?

The reason "retarded" is offensive is because of societal and cultural implications, which, drum roll please! the dictionary doesn't take into consideration! N*gger is in the Merriam Webster dictionary too but we don't say it because it's historically been used to stigmatize people and is now considered offensive and racist as fuck! Regardless if you're saying "retarded" or "mentally handicapped" or WHATEVER, the point is you're still using it negatively and society has and continues to treat people that do have disabilities like shit. When you call someone retarded you by extension are demeaning and dismissing people who really do have whatever type of problems. What you're literally doing is trying to offend someone by reducing them to someone who is mentally handicapped.

I wasn't even going to bring it up when I initially responded because I didn't want to veer off topic but your response to Michelle was absolutely 100% asinine.

Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on August 5, 2014 at 9:10am

You know, I'm fine with the whole "retarded" taboo; I understand its rationale, I don't feel a "need" to use the word in a way that could potentially hurt others, and I can respect that there are some people who feel very strongly about the hurt that word can cause. 

But I don't feel as strongly about it as I feel about other slurs, whose (hypothetical) use actually makes me feel bad. I'm certainly not inclined to yell about using the word "retarded" online and wish physical harm on people who use the term. It's a rule I'm happy to follow, but not one I'm compelled to defend to the death.

So I've been thinking about why that is. I think it's because it's not hard for me to imagine people using most slurs in a way that corresponds to other hurtful behavior. A racial, homophobic, or sexist slur - I can imagine all the ones I know of being used by people actively trying to hurt someone else with the term, and so I identify that kind of reprehensible action with the word itself. I'm repulsed by the action, and so I'm repulsed by the word. But "retarded" is different - I'm not myself very familiar with instances of people using it to hurt others. The word has almost always been used, in my recollection, by childhood friends, in a joking fashion. 

That's not to say that it's okay to use the word or that it shouldn't be considered a "slur." It's not even to deny that I've been privileged in not hearing the word used that way or not having its harmful use be a part of my life or of the life of a loved one. I'm just talking about why I think I don't feel very strongly about it, concededly, perhaps, as an "outsider."

But you know what I do tend to associate, emotionally, with the "retarded" taboo? It's this kind of shrill, bullying, uncompromising, and ultimately counterproductive rhetoric you've been engaged in. It doesn't make me feel more or less strongly about not using the word, but it does make me feel a little silly for following a rule whose proponents show all of the "sympathy, empathy, [and] critical thinking skills" demonstrated by calling those who use the term "enormous douches" and hoping that they get "slugged" for using it. 

Do you think that Tristan is more likely to learn to be repulsed by the word, because of your advocacy here? Or do you think he's more likely just to learn to expect responses like yours, if he uses it?

Michelle Milham said:

Or, you know, we could just try to have sympathy, empathy, critical thinking skills and the desire not to hurt other people with needless slurs! 

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 9:13am

And, as far as the bullied part, I'm hoping my posts convince rather than bully


David Altenburg said:

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on August 5, 2014 at 9:16am

I am done. Done. DONE. SO FUCKING DONE. Coddling people who have no basic decency. 

They deserve to know that they are despicable. 

I have to do this EVERYWHERE I go. Usually because people are sexist, but other things don't get to slide either. 

And what you're speaking about is "microaggressions." You should be just as not ok with those as you are with outright discrimination. 

Also yes, he SHOULD expect responses like mine if he continues to do this. He's not got any inability to understand why it's completely offensive. WHY should I be polite when he is willfully ignoring what everyone has said?

Simon Phearson said:

You know, I'm fine with the whole "retarded" taboo; I understand its rationale, I don't feel a "need" to use the word in a way that could potentially hurt others, and I can respect that there are some people who feel very strongly about the hurt that word can cause. 

But I don't feel as strongly about it as I feel about other slurs, whose (hypothetical) use actually makes me feel bad. I'm certainly not inclined to yell about it online and wish physical harm on people who use the term. It's a rule I'm happy to follow, but not one I'm compelled to defend to the death.

So I've been thinking about why that is. I think it's because it's not hard for me to imagine people using most slurs in a way that corresponds to other hurtful behavior. A racial, homophobic, or sexist slur - I can imagine all the ones I know of being used by people actively trying to hurt someone else with the term, and so I identify that kind of reprehensible action with the word itself. I'm repulsed by the action, and so I'm repulsed by the word. But "retarded" is different - I'm not myself very familiar with instances of people using it to hurt others. The word has almost always been used, in my recollection, by childhood friends, in a joking fashion. 

That's not to say that it's okay to use the word or that it shouldn't be considered a "slur." It's not even to deny that I've been privileged in not hearing the word used that way or not having its harmful use be a part of my life or of the life of a loved one. I'm just talking about why I think I don't feel very strongly about it, concededly, perhaps, as an "outsider."

But you know what I do tend to associate, emotionally, with the "retarded" taboo? It's this kind of shrill, bullying, uncompromising, and ultimately counterproductive rhetoric you've been engaged in. It doesn't make me feel more or less strongly about not using the word, but it does make me feel a little silly for following a rule whose proponents show all of the "sympathy, empathy, [and] critical thinking skills" demonstrated by calling those who use the term "enormous douches" and hoping that they get "slugged" for using it. 

Do you think that Tristan is more likely to learn to be repulsed by the word, because of your advocacy here? Or do you think he's more likely just to learn to expect responses like yours, if he uses it?

Michelle Milham said:

Or, you know, we could just try to have sympathy, empathy, critical thinking skills and the desire not to hurt other people with needless slurs! 

Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on August 5, 2014 at 9:26am

That's fair. It's not your (or any of our) responsibility to teach the world why they should be better people. If you feel compelled to respond to Tristan like he's not a decent human being, capable of empathy or critical thinking, have at it; that's none of my business.

But fair's fair: your bullying here doesn't evince much empathy, critical thinking, or basic human decency either. So far, I've essentially coddled you, appreciating that you feel strongly about this issue and understanding (per the above) that your point shouldn't be dismissed just because you're choosing not to advocate for it. Am I entitled, then, to treat you like the bully you are? Or am I somehow required to extend you a courtesy you are done, DONE, SO FUCKING DONE, extending to other people?

Michelle Milham said:

I am done. Done. DONE. SO FUCKING DONE. Coddling people who have no basic decency. 

They deserve to know that they are despicable. 

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on August 5, 2014 at 9:30am

I extend courtesy to everyone. EXCEPT those who feel the need to continuously and willfully hurt other people using slurs when they have already been informed how offensive it is. Or when they push racist, ableist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic agendas. I will not idly stand by and politely say "please... please don't make some of the largest issues in America worse because you don't FEEL LIKE helping." I will tell them "You're a dick. IF you continue this behavior, I will continue to tell you you're a dick." 

Like... at what point, exactly, does it become them doing this JUST to hurt BECAUSE THEY CAN. I'll be the one telling them that they can't and I won't stand for it. I will not sit down, shut up, and tacitly allow them to keep up the behavior. 

Permalink Reply by Simon Phearson on August 5, 2014 at 9:34am

That's fine. Tristan won't apologize for his behavior, either, so there you two are alike.

Michelle Milham said:

I extend courtesy to everyone. EXCEPT those who feel the need to continuously and willfully hurt other people using slurs when they have already been informed how offensive it is. Or when they push racist, ableist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic agendas. I will not idly stand by and politely say "please... please don't make some of the largest issues in America worse because you don't FEEL LIKE helping." I will tell them "You're a dick. IF you continue this behavior, I will continue to tell you you're a dick." 

Like... at what point, exactly, does it become them doing this JUST to hurt BECAUSE THEY CAN. 

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