Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by travesty on January 28, 2011 at 7:30am

David said:

There's something almost magical about the chainlink's ability to generate a heated argument out of even the most innocuous posting.

Hey David! I was told I was thinking too much, thinking the idea to death, and in fact I was almost informed someone might be willing to punch me to get their gloves back (with sarcasm I guess) and you would indicate this as "innocuous"?
I would say, I am doing the debate here, Travesty, and I BRING IT like perhaps others will not bring it. I think there are trolls on this site, and in general people overestimate their own insight and understanding in the context of open questions. Not to highlight anyone specific in this thread, but you often see a self professed expert step forward and put down their authoritative answer, only to be quickly outdone by another expert who has a better answer. Nothing magical about it really, I list it under communication, specifically PUBLIC communication, and if you think it is uncomplicated I would say I disagree.

Permalink Reply by mike w. on January 28, 2011 at 7:31am

i think one thing one could take away from this discussion is this:

 

 If it's not yours, leave it alone.

Permalink Reply by travesty on January 28, 2011 at 7:45am

David said:

On your question, my two cents is that for anything smaller than a bike itself, if somebody says it's theirs, just accept their word for it.  It's reasonable to ask basic identifying questions (what sticker was on the helmet?), but asking for receipts, photos or taking their picture to identify them later is a bit over the top.  That's especially true if you announce the find in a limited setting such as the Sadie after-party or even the Chainlink (which is big, but is nothing compared to,say, CraigsList).

For a bike, I might ask for a bit more, and that increases as the cost of the bike increases.  Somebody might not have any way to prove that the 20-year-old Schwinn is theirs, so let it go, but I assume somebody with an expensive carbon road bike has something that can prove ownership. 

 

I realize now I've mixed up my responses a bit. I addressed the old Schwinn as opposed to the fancy carbon up above in my reply to Janmaria, sorry! I appreciate your straight forward post here. I agree that in most cases it will be difficult to prove those goggles, that glove, that bike light is actually yours and not another's.
If I have one glove, I can ask they bring the other. Its a simple protocol in this case. If I have both gloves, I can ask they guess where they might have lost them, given the date I found them. An item like a pair of gloves, I can't reveal much about them if I want to rely on a description. It is just not acceptable to "trust" people in this case, according to the protocol. I will ask them if they have a photo of them with the item, I will ask them if there are special markings, I will ask, but if they cannot provide something solid, it is THEN I can make the judgement and "let it go" or apologize and say I don't think its a match, and then hand the item to the police.
If I have a pair of toe warmers, there is precious little I can use to describe them. Its a time I found them, a basic identification of what the item is, and still a troll who saw them in the street before I got there might already have enough info to claim the item and mess with me and the owner, just for fun or because they think I'm some addle brained hippie or something. If this person is not willing to take a happy photo, or is not willing to show some ID, I don't know what to say, I don't feel like helping them since they have basically ZERO to support their claim. As such events happen, I think the IDEA that you should label, with a phone number even, your various items becomes more and more understood and suddenly we have a NEW culture where people are actually given further reason to pick up items and hand them off to a "process" that they can trust will make a best faith effort to identify the owner.

Also, I think a photo, with ID, is a fine protocol for returning a decent bike to someone who otherwise does not have much solid proof that it is stolen.
Doing that for a glove seems over the top, but then I would love to have a photo of them holding up their returned glove or gloves so I could post it as a "success story" they might even have a warm smile to offer for the camera. This will be evidence that will at least suggest that the protocol not only works, but if I leave it open to development, it might adapt to various legal jurisdictions and might have a shot to become the BEST protocol. People might then look to it for authoritative answers to such a question of "what is an appropriate amount of hoops to ask the owner to jump through?"

Permalink Reply by travesty on January 28, 2011 at 7:54am

James Baum said:

Tribunal on the street corner -pure gold!  That line made my whole day. 

 

I'm imagining a bunch of guys with long beards Taliban-style and the threat of stoning U-locking to death anyone who made false claims/bore false witness to their fellow cyclist. 

 

Implement sharia veloistic law amongst the faithful NOW!

Sean Gaskin said:

 The important stuff like keys, wallets, phones, or other valuable personal items should be very easy to match with the right person with a question or two instead of tribunal on the street corner.

I guess entertainment is fine, but then you felt the need to indicate your entertainment and elaborate for some reason. This thread wasn't really about showcasing that sort of activity. I don't really think this "tribunal" idea was anything but the impression of Sean Gaskin. You can look to him for elucidation because I have no interest in some kind of holy law. In fact, I take it sort of hard I went to this much trouble and you have basically nothing to say about the topic, but only want to post about some tangent somebody went off on. I feel you are not really helping this thread by depicting an image of somebody being u-locked to death. Nowhere did anybody indicate the stakes were that high. Nowhere has anybody else called this some kind of life and death struggle, and in fact I have already called out Sean for sarcastically putting in violent rhetoric where none is necessary. Now you have escalated that and have a whole fantasy you feel the need to post to the chainlink under my thread.

By the way, I have a long beard. Basically, it is difficult in this case, without knowing a bit more about you as a person, to distinguish your motives as separate from some troll, or somebody who could not care less about the actual topic of my thread. Sorry, but I find that to be the case and I am looking to say it as diplomatically and non-confrontationally as I find possible without spending a week editing my post.

Permalink Reply by travesty on January 28, 2011 at 7:57am

Another person who gets entertainment. That is fine people! But why you would want to post about it leads me to believe you have little if any respect for topicality. Threads get derailed pretty easily because of such activity and in general I welcome NOTHING from this guy Davo. Davo, you have been entertaining as well, I have no idea what the whole foods photo is about but why don't you stay out of any thread I create from now on. I have seen enough of your posting style to realize you are unlikely to contribute anything useful in most cases. In general I would hope you could find it entertaining that I find you almost indistinguishable from a borderline troll, a thread buster, and I could not care any less about what you think on any subject. Stay away from me on the chainlink, and thanks :)

Davo said:

 

This is where I imagine the first couple of posts took place.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Permalink Reply by mike w. on January 28, 2011 at 8:21am

i think another thing one could learn from this discussion:

 

Drop it and leave it alone.

 

Travesty, you're not helping yourself. Maybe it's time to drop the defensiveness and the endless rebuttals. Don't be so concerned with what others think and just do what you believe to be the right thing. Keep calm and carry on.

 

Peace.

 

Out.

Permalink Reply by travesty on January 28, 2011 at 8:21am

Thanks for that! I covered this when I say as soon as I start a search I am taking a risk. I risk they might be out looking for the item for instance. There are many good reasons to leave the item right where it is, and I think I covered some of my reasoning on that. But of course you don't present much reasoning with your statement. So I have to say, sorry, but I reserve the right to stage a search for the owner and take any risk that may be involved in such a process. Your edict is not acceptable as far as I can tell, but perhaps you might come back with your reasoning in which case I will comment when I get a chance. Thanks again Mike W.!

mike w. said:

i think one thing one could take away from this discussion is this:

 

 If it's not yours, leave it alone.

Also, above I indicated when somebody who was not the owner basically removed my right to even stage a search for the owner. The item did not belong to them, it was them asserting that they knew best and that I had sacrificed any sort of best faith effort already.

I think it is worth mentioning that SOMEBODY is often going to pick up the item if it has value. That helmet will be taken home and de-loused or whatever by somebody who wants to upgrade their helmet. I am indicating that it is in fact best maybe if I was to grab it since I present an open and well thought out protocol. So yes, I could leave everything I come across, and then it will often not have much of chance of getting to its rightful home. So I feel there are issues here your edict kind of glosses over, like how I am willing to take a risk and others might be willing as well.
If you don't feel that you would be interested in such a process, that if fine, but please understand that this thread might not be the best place for you to post your edict that everything that does not belong to you should be left alone. I won't be following this advice, I think that was quite clear from the initial thread starting post, sorry if I somehow was not clear on that, but I wonder now if you have even read the many words I've put down so far.

Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on January 28, 2011 at 8:34am

Hey everyone, time to cool it. This thread is getting closed. Please take the negative comments and snarkiness somewhere else.

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