Dreaming that this was "OUR CITY" !


What if Chicago looked like this? What if this could be the perfect City? What if there were no cars? Would we still have a beef?




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Permalink Reply by Andrew Bedno on May 20, 2010 at 12:52am
...shiny happy people riding bikes...
don't need helmets so much when there's no f*ing cars
looks like lots of politeness, some hand signals, and near complete racial homogeneity
somewhere in the mix is a guy riding, holding a spare bike next to him.
only moment of tension, is the one a*hole who comes through on a motorcycle, abusing the privilege like scooters do on our lakefront path

but clearly, to get back closer to the newly evolved topic, this is all an example of Nazi influence

(hi Jera! and Thanx buddaa!)
Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on May 20, 2010 at 2:31am
Craig,
Adriana was (at that point) claiming that she would never be a vegetarian in reaction to sickening propaganda. I simply pointed out how hollow her argument was by citing the two most glaring examples of sickening propaganda that came to mind. Applying her standard to those examples illustrated her deeply flawed logic.

As for you, every significant choice we make has a moral component. Put simply, is it right or wrong? Or somewhere in between? If you choose to eat meat, you are making a moral choice. You've decided either that you are going to do the wrong thing (kill an innocent animal, support an industry with a very bad worker safety record, wreck the planet, damage your health, etc) or you've decided that we disagree and that it is not the wrong choice. It is still a moral choice either way.

I may have missed it, but I'm pretty sure that neither Howard nor I labeled anyone in this discussion.

Craig S. said:
Geez, Tony, talk about weak. Right away go for the jugular and bring up genocide and gluttony through the fast food industry and whether someone is a vegetarian or not. Is it really a "moral" issue for everyone? It ain't for me, I love dead animal products!
Bring up the abortion debate too, why not. Do you know anything about Adriana? Perhaps you should get to know a person and what they've been through before you blithely bring up such ridiculous retorts like the abortion debate to someone expressing their opinion in an off the wall way. I also can't believe Howard labeled her a fascist. I'm one to make complete snap judgements and cast labels but even I wouldn't stoop as far as you two. I thought it was okay to express opinions around here. Perhaps I'm wrong?
Personally, this video drives me nuts and it's far from a cyclists utopia. I wonder what this makes me.

Tony Adams said:
Adriana said:
This is the reason why I will never become a vegan/vegetarian...the shoving of propaganda down my throat is sickening.

This has to be the most weak reasoning I've ever seen on the chainlink - and we've all seen plenty of weak reasoning here. To make a moral choice because you don't approve of the tactics of a tiny subset of the people who hold a particular position? That is just senseless.

Have you seen the propaganda of the anti-abortion fanatics? Does it drive you to have abortions? Would genocide be ok if the depictions of death camps by those who oppose genocide were gruesome enough?
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on May 20, 2010 at 3:30am
Well this thread went right to hell...


Permalink Reply by Duppie on May 20, 2010 at 6:44am
Well done, you're showing good improvement here.
Last discussion it took 130+ posts for you to recognize that the thread had gone 'to hell'. This time it took only 19 posts.... ;).


notoriousDUG said:
Well this thread went right to hell...


Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on May 20, 2010 at 8:23am
Ok, I'm going to take the high road on this one and not be sarcastic.

Andrew, you seriously can't believe that helmets are much less important when cars aren't present, can you? Have you ever watched bike racing? Riders go down in the middle of the pack all the time (and there's nothing around them but other bikes - and they're PROFESSIONAL riders).

What about riding in bad weather? I had my wheels go out from under me on Christmas day heading down to CCM while going over a bridge. No cars were around me, the wet metal bridgework caused my wheels to lose their grip. I didn't even see a car in my lane for 15 seconds after I fell.

I'm not really sure what reality you're living in, but I don't think it's the one the rest of us are living in. Many more things than cars can cause a crash.

Andrew Bedno said:
...shiny happy people riding bikes...
don't need helmets so much when there's no f*ing cars
Permalink Reply by buddaa38 on May 20, 2010 at 9:11am
Well put Ryan! I'm not saying to wear one or not. But this is a fact that when you do put your helmet on you do pay a little bit more attention as to not wearing one.

Just maybe the fact it has some weight to it or a security blanket for your sub-conscious. either way. I wear mine, because choice of good living, Same as being a vegetarian. Does this make me right wing no. Hearing bells ringing is far more better than breathing smog & fumes.

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:
Ok, I'm going to take the high road on this one and not be sarcastic.

Andrew, you seriously can't believe that helmets are much less important when cars aren't present, can you? Have you ever watched bike racing? Riders go down in the middle of the pack all the time (and there's nothing around them but other bikes - and they're PROFESSIONAL riders).

What about riding in bad weather? I had my wheels go out from under me on Christmas day heading down to CCM while going over a bridge. No cars were around me, the wet metal bridgework caused my wheels to lose their grip. I didn't even see a car in my lane for 15 seconds after I fell.

I'm not really sure what reality you're living in, but I don't think it's the one the rest of us are living in. Many more things than cars can cause a crash.

Andrew Bedno said:
...shiny happy people riding bikes...
don't need helmets so much when there's no f*ing cars
Permalink Reply by Moc Artsy on May 20, 2010 at 12:15pm

Permalink Reply by Andrew Bedno on May 20, 2010 at 2:38pm
For the record, I'm pretty sternly pro-helmet (certainly >99% of my biking hours), partly to never disappoint Kathy Schubert, and partly from two concussions in decades past. In inline skating we joke, anything else you can break and heal, your head you can only break once.
My thought was that in this context, low speed and low mass, it's reasonable to at least postulate that head injury rates would be vastly lower. And I did qualify ("don't need helmets *SO* much"). I also like the culturally entrenched better skills argument.

As to the original question, WHAT IF, this looks blissfully Utopian to me, and a CERTAINTY here eventually, but maybe not in my lifetime. Another certainty of the future is little to no beef, for too many strong reasons to jot here.

(PS. Hi Adriana, saw you on the path this evening?)
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on May 20, 2010 at 3:15pm
Where did you find a picture of me?

Moc Artsy said:

Permalink Reply by buddaa38 on May 20, 2010 at 5:10pm
Your absolutely right Howard,

In Europe bike is the first means of transportation. With that, they're vast superior in riding than we. How we can get to their level of riding is by taking some cycling classes. Such as safety, etc... For more information contact Albany Park Bikes.

H3N3 said:
Anti-helmet folks (not saying Andrew is one per se) looooove to procliam that there are no head injuries in Holland.
But typically the argument goes something like "they learn to ride bikes early in life so they have better skills" rather than relating the amazing phenomenon to the presence (or lack) of cars.

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:
Ok, I'm going to take the high road on this one and not be sarcastic.

Andrew, you seriously can't believe that helmets are much less important when cars aren't present, can you? Have you ever watched bike racing? Riders go down in the middle of the pack all the time (and there's nothing around them but other bikes - and they're PROFESSIONAL riders).

What about riding in bad weather? I had my wheels go out from under me on Christmas day heading down to CCM while going over a bridge. No cars were around me, the wet metal bridgework caused my wheels to lose their grip. I didn't even see a car in my lane for 15 seconds after I fell.

I'm not really sure what reality you're living in, but I don't think it's the one the rest of us are living in. Many more things than cars can cause a crash.

Andrew Bedno said:
...shiny happy people riding bikes...
don't need helmets so much when there's no f*ing cars
Permalink Reply by r3tr0b0t on May 20, 2010 at 7:45pm
I dont think a world full of bikes is for me. I enjoy being the minority, and I also enjoy the danger that vehicles pose. The unpredictable nature of a road not made for a biker adds a certain thrill to my commutes and joy rides.
Permalink Reply by Andrew Bedno on May 21, 2010 at 12:32pm

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