Done hating? Join cwlcatcwlt today!
This is a group that realizes that we all have something in common. We ride bikes. We can have differing points of view on a vast array of topics related to and completely seperate from biking, but we have at least some common ground and that is a start.
A group that understands we have all erred. We have all been judgmental or harsh or critical or unfair to our fellow cyclists, and that there is a better way forward. You don't have to be perfect to join, but you should be committed to trying harder. A group that seeks to find ways where our common ground allows for some unity, and our unity creates power and numbers that advances our common goals.
Come and join Cyclists Who Love Cyclists and the Cyclists Who Love Them today, and help stop the hating. It's time for a whole lot of bike love, and a little bit of unity.
Views: 143
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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this statement reeks of intolerance.
Why, Ryan, can't you just get along?
Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:It's a shame that the original poster of threads can't delete replies that are made because this thread needs a major cleaning.
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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on
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Hahaha, so I should go all double-agent on this thread?
notoriousDUG said:this statement reeks of intolerance.
Why, Ryan, can't you just get along?
Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:It's a shame that the original poster of threads can't delete replies that are made because this thread needs a major cleaning.
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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on
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Jera Sue said:H3N3 said:Some questions you could ask:
-"why did that post upset you so much? Is there something here I missed?" -"what do I need to know about this person to understand why this issue that seems so trivial to me is seemingly so important to him?
I don't think that this is an extremely inappropriate place to have this conversation (unless Lee does, in which case, I apologize), but where else can I ask my questions, like:
In the event that someone says something that pisses someone else off and that someone else says something mean or abrasive... why is it the responsibility of the first guy to approach that other guy (or gal, forgive me) with kindness?
It's not. But if they don't understand what pissed the person off, and they're genuinely interested in fostering productive communication rather than fanning the flames, it would be to their advantage to either find out, or let it go. If they're more interested in fanning flames and helping deepen rifts, then they are certainly free to follow a variety of other paths, including but not limited to peppering various threads with unintentional or intentional mischaracterizations of the other person's actions.
At which time the "other person" might feel inclined to respond.
And after which other people who can't resist adding to the drama could come and dance about with various side-comments and poems and declarations of thread pollution and cute one-liners to help keep the thread at the top.
BTW, your poem is missing the "small penis" reference.
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Permalink Reply by Jera Sue on
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I still think it's better that people all respect each other in the first place instead of posting guidelines for disaster recovery once someone's already been attacked. But yes, I suppose if someone really wants to know why they were engaged in a flame war, they could just ask.
There are people here who could be a bit more subtle about their utter disgust at another person's opinion on a matter. It's off-putting.
The thread was about respecting your fellow cyclists (or about a group about respecting your fellow cyclists), and that's what we're talking about. Relationships take work! :)
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Jera Sue said:I still think it's better that people all respect each other in the first place instead of posting guidelines for disaster recovery once someone's already been attacked. But yes, I suppose if someone really wants to know why they were engaged in a flame war, they could just ask.
There are people here who could be a bit more subtle about their utter disgust at another person's opinion on a matter. It's off-putting. The thread was about respecting your fellow cyclists (or about a group about respecting your fellow cyclists), and that's what we're talking about. Relationships take work! :)
I agree!
I think . . .
But I don't know exactly what or who you're referring to with these extreme labels like "flame war" and "utter disgust." It may just be that some folks need to not click on topics that they know are probably going to result in heated discussion if they only want to see happy-happy talk. Or in general folks can make an effort to avoid intentionally starting hot-button threads out of boredom or because their drama meter is on low.
If the forum software were more flexible there could be a "spirited discussion" forum, and then everyone could be mad at each-other for getting a thread "moved . . ."
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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Lee,
I can see that if you berate people in private they might get upset. It is easy to feel as if you are singled out, especially since the poster doesn't know whether you berated anybody else.
I think that consistently applied moderation is a good idea. Maybe instead of dealing with it in private way via PM, deal with it openly, by deleting posts that are just personal attacks or filled with profanity and replacing it with a message stating it got deleted by a moderator and why. If the poster doesn't agree with that he is free to go elsewhere and spout his personal attacks and profanity.
But I take that it is not the direction you guys have taken.
Lee Diamond said:Hey Duppie,
I am still a moderator. Overall, the goal of moderators since I have been one seems to be to have a pretty light-touch. I don't disagree with that, and there are lots of times we discuss postings, and there are times we reach out to individuals, or give them "strikes" or suspend them and even ban them. The funny thing is that, our light touch is portrayed as diabolical censorship and interference and hostility and every other thing you can imagine on the occassions when it is used. Classic damned if you do damned if you don't scenarios over and over, so it is a bit of a winder that doesn't seem to let up.
I also think it goes beyond the Chainlink, as the Chainlink is just the online manifestation of what it is talking about, namely a bicycling community. I've been in numerous social settings over the course of the last few years where the constant theme of conversation is similar amongst the cyclists....exasperation with other cyclists and a laundry list of complaints about how other people cycle.
I say this having recognized it in myself as I grew tired of it. It is kind of easy to think of someone else as part of the problem when you catch them being part of the problem, but what about when you catch yourself doing it?
I am not a fan of the yelling-screaming-way of doing things that we have have degenerated into, as a society, so again, that is just the bicycling community representing a bad progression. I think this group could be what you describe, but that wasn't my intent. I don't mind it turning into anything positive at all, or even nothing. it is just the internets.
i like the idea that it might be a place where ideas are discussed that bring us together though, which I think would be good. It would be nice to talk about constructive ways of talking to others. I think there are ways you can do outreach that people are receptive to, and then ways that get their dander up and shut down your hopes of reaching them. Maybe we could discuss ways to do that....like if you want to get people to lock up better, how do you educate them without them thinking of you as preaching at them, and shutting down? Same thing with any topic....wearing a helmet, being safe, etc.
Part of the creation of this group is just because it seemed like a way to bring the topic itself to the forum. Plus I had to show off my mad art skillz.
Cheers - Lee
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Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on
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Actually, the more public our approach has been, the worse, by large degrees the reaction has been as well.
Duppie said:Lee,
I can see that if you berate people in private they might get upset. It is easy to feel as if you are singled out, especially since the poster doesn't know whether you berated anybody else.
I think that consistently applied moderation is a good idea. Maybe instead of dealing with it in private way via PM, deal with it openly, by deleting posts that are just personal attacks or filled with profanity and replacing it with a message stating it got deleted by a moderator and why. If the poster doesn't agree with that he is free to go elsewhere and spout his personal attacks and profanity.
But I take that it is not the direction you guys have taken.
Lee Diamond said:Hey Duppie,
I am still a moderator. Overall, the goal of moderators since I have been one seems to be to have a pretty light-touch. I don't disagree with that, and there are lots of times we discuss postings, and there are times we reach out to individuals, or give them "strikes" or suspend them and even ban them. The funny thing is that, our light touch is portrayed as diabolical censorship and interference and hostility and every other thing you can imagine on the occassions when it is used. Classic damned if you do damned if you don't scenarios over and over, so it is a bit of a winder that doesn't seem to let up.
I also think it goes beyond the Chainlink, as the Chainlink is just the online manifestation of what it is talking about, namely a bicycling community. I've been in numerous social settings over the course of the last few years where the constant theme of conversation is similar amongst the cyclists....exasperation with other cyclists and a laundry list of complaints about how other people cycle.
I say this having recognized it in myself as I grew tired of it. It is kind of easy to think of someone else as part of the problem when you catch them being part of the problem, but what about when you catch yourself doing it?
I am not a fan of the yelling-screaming-way of doing things that we have have degenerated into, as a society, so again, that is just the bicycling community representing a bad progression. I think this group could be what you describe, but that wasn't my intent. I don't mind it turning into anything positive at all, or even nothing. it is just the internets.
i like the idea that it might be a place where ideas are discussed that bring us together though, which I think would be good. It would be nice to talk about constructive ways of talking to others. I think there are ways you can do outreach that people are receptive to, and then ways that get their dander up and shut down your hopes of reaching them. Maybe we could discuss ways to do that....like if you want to get people to lock up better, how do you educate them without them thinking of you as preaching at them, and shutting down? Same thing with any topic....wearing a helmet, being safe, etc.
Part of the creation of this group is just because it seemed like a way to bring the topic itself to the forum. Plus I had to show off my mad art skillz.
Cheers - Lee
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Permalink Reply by David on
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I'm very a much a newcomer to this board, but after a quarter century of floating around internet discussion groups in one form or another my strong feeling is that you can never change people's online behavior. As you say, calling individuals out in public usually just makes it worse. You can try to nudge the impoliteness into a separate forum (which is very difficult given Ning's default homepage setup) or you can just start banning lots of people (heavy moderation inevitably leads to banning, otherwise it's just too much work), and I don't think anybody wants the latter.
I admit to being initially stunned by the tone and lack of respect on many threads here. It's the kind of thing you usually see on political forums rather than a biking or community forum. But after a short time, I think it becomes obvious that this comes from a very small number of people who enjoy pushing each others buttons and being instigators of this sort. The overwhelming number of people on Chainlink seem to be polite, respectful and welcoming.
I think these types of periodic reminders are the best you can do, and they're often very effective in having people calm down just a little bit, which is all you need. Notice that even this thread started to spin out of control but then it calmed down again; that's probably a good sign.
Lee Diamond said:Actually, the more public our approach has been, the worse, by large degrees the reaction has been as well.
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Permalink Reply by Davo on
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The internetz has been around for 25yrs?
Is you Al Gore?
Granted, I nos Internetz historian.
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It really has been. I ran a Fidonet node with a usenet feed back in the mid 80s (I'm old) and Usenet goes further back than that. I was on compuserve forums before Fido, but I'm not sure I'd count that as the Internet.
BTW, I didn't mean for my first post to sound pessimistic. I think these reminders give a short-term fix, and in the longer term very small changes in membership can result in massive changes in behavior as the people who enjoy these kinds of fights decide divert that energy to other forums.
Davo said:The internetz has been around for 25yrs?
Is you Al Gore? Granted, I nos Internetz historian.
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Permalink Reply by mike w. on
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i'm reminded of a favourite saying of my Old Dad as it pertained to TV: "It has an OFF switch."
Applied to internet forums in general, if i find things spiralling into flames and slams, i think it's probably best not to read further.
Or, as Twain may have said, It is better to hold your tongue and be thought of as a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Just my 2 cents.
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Permalink Reply by Moc Artsy on
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Hey Lee,
Very amusing that the Love-Fest here didn't even make it beyond the initial response to your two clarifications at the origin, and that the thread itself turned into, well, you know. I'm waiting for responses to my "I love everyone who has ever owned or ridden a bicycle and want to buy them all an ice cream cone" thread, but I fear for the worst.
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