Done hating? Join cwlcatcwlt today!

 

 

This is a group that realizes that we all have something in common.  We ride bikes. We can have differing points of view on a vast array of topics related to and completely seperate from biking, but we have at least some common ground and that is a start.

 

A group that understands we have all erred.  We have all been judgmental or harsh or critical or unfair to our fellow cyclists, and that there is a better way forward.  You don't have to be perfect to join, but you should be committed to trying harder.  A group that seeks to find ways where our common ground allows for some unity, and our unity creates power and numbers that advances our common goals.

 

Come and join Cyclists Who Love Cyclists and the Cyclists Who Love Them today, and help stop the hating.  It's time for a whole lot of bike love, and a little bit of unity.

 

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on August 8, 2010 at 4:38am
I think it is more about being able to disagree with some civility.
Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on August 8, 2010 at 4:40am
More importantly, to focus on some of the points we agree on, and work on those.
Permalink Reply by milesperhour on August 8, 2010 at 6:52am
This is great! I think the focus should be on promoting bicycling in a positive light.

As an aside, this board came highly recommended by another member of yours on here. I thought it would be great to join a forum of like-minded, progressive folks who are also into biking and hopefully connect with them on some rides. With that said, I say this next part with much hesitation, but maybe it will help. As a newbie, who joined this board....oh, about two weeks ago, I'll say I was really put off at first. There are definitely constructive discussions and a wealth of information on here, but there is also a lot of negativity and bashing of people who don't conform in exactly the way others think they should. I did second guess myself for a bit, wondering if this biking "community" was something I wanted to be a part of. Then I realized that even in the biking community, just like all other areas of life, you will have your good and bad.

However, I think it is important to take how you as an individual, and a bicyclist, are perceived by others....police, pedestrians, motorists. If you are trying to promote biking, then make sure you are always doing so in a positive way, so as not to put people off to the idea of it. I watched a shameful video of Critical Mass bikers clashing with police on LSD and all I could think to myself was that these bikers were doing nothing for their movement. It only takes one person to ruin the image for everyone.

In order to make progress, we must understand the challenges to making bicycling more popular and the ways around them, rather than just telling people they are wrong. Nothing is ever that black and white. And when trying to educate people, don't judge. You can catch more bees with honey.....

Just my 2 cents.
Permalink Reply by milesperhour on August 8, 2010 at 11:00am
Not at all. The elitist statement came from the person's comment that their tax dollars shouldn't be used to fund anything related to cars and that bikes are for the best of society. That is a pretty bold statement, one that I find many things wrong with and which were covered in the other thread, so I'm not going to rehash it here.

That wasn't even the discussion that bothered me and prompted my comment in this thread. It is more random posts I came across that I just thought people on here would be above.

Like I said, just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

H3N3 said:
I thought it would be great to join a forum of like-minded, progressive folks
There are definitely constructive discussions and a wealth of information on here, but there is also a lot of negativity and bashing of people who don't conform in exactly the way others think they should.
So anyone who doesn't agree with you is not "progressive?"
Aren't you the guy decrying people who are willing to speak up for non-car ownership as "elitist?"

Take responsibility for your own negativity and the reactions it provokes, please.


Would be good if people joined Lee's group because they believed in building bridges across factions of the cycling community, and not for the express purpose of declaring their superiority.


Permalink Reply by milesperhour on August 8, 2010 at 11:06am
I see you've deleted our post now.
Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on August 9, 2010 at 1:30am
To clarify, I realize that we have disagreements. I realize some people like 1 speed, others need 30. Some have stubby little handlebars, and others have all manner of bars at every conceivable angle. Some have 19mm tires, others are practically riding tractors. I realize there are riders who don't have lights, or helmets, or obey traffic, and others who do. Some own cars and others do not. There are those that ride for fitness, and others for transportation. Some who are into the sport, others who are interested in a movement.

I have been concerned with the level of civility and decorum on the Chainlink in the recent past. People are too quick to get hot, and when they get hot, they get really hot. Some folks seem like they are itching for a fight, and this is just an attempt to dial all of that back. I am not trying to start a movement. I am just trying to bring the tone down a notch. The very fact that we are all members of this great site is enough common ground in my opinion that we can at least be civil when we disagree. We can certainly have a diverse and opinionated membership without attacking one another.

To be sure, I am not pure...I have dissed others, called others out, said unkind things, and have raised the level of ire needlessly myself, so first and foremost, it is an effort to fix myself. I apologize to Spencer and Clark and Andrew and Howard and others I may have offended or unloaded on. I aim to figure out ways I can defend my point of view without demonizing others in the process. Others have pointed out to me that I can be harsh, unfair and intollerant, so it is clearly a problem that I must address. I hope it works, because frankly, it isn't helpful to my worldview to express my feelings and vision in a way that only alienates those with whom I disagree.

That said, it is depressing how quickly forum topics turn into arguments between a couple of players, usually far from the original poster's topic. It is exasperating to see cyclists so intent on bashing eachother. The noise-level has gotten too high, and this, is nothing more than attempt to bring it down to a reasonable level.

I hope it helps.

Cheers - Lee
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on August 9, 2010 at 7:14am
I'm all for disagreeing as long as we can all agree my way is better.
Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on August 9, 2010 at 8:19am
Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug... *walks away shaking head and laughing*

notoriousDUG said:
I'm all for disagreeing as long as we can all agree my way is better.
Permalink Reply by dan brown on August 9, 2010 at 8:26am
this is interesting.

here are my 2 cents :

(A) any online forum requires two things :

1) a thick skin
2) a short memory

and

(B) I used to belong to a list server and there were two 'guidelines' (note I did not say 'rules')
for helping to keep things civil

1) use the 10% nicer rule. i.e. try to be 10% nice than the last guy (gal)
2) before you hit the 'send' button on an "angrygram" - sit on your hands and ask yourself these
two questions - (1) do I really want everyone to see this ? (2) Would my mother appreciate me saying
this ?

(onward and upward now)
Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:
Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug... *walks away shaking head and laughing*

notoriousDUG said:
I'm all for disagreeing as long as we can all agree my way is better.
Permalink Reply by Andrew Bedno on August 11, 2010 at 7:43am
Noticing I'm mentioned by name in your post ("I apologize to Spencer and Clark and Andrew and Howard and others I may have offended or unloaded on..."), gotta tell you I don't recall anything more than strong constructive feedback from you, Lee. In fact, you're one of my heros. So no offense ever taken. I've been in a long stretch of working hard to get back to being nothing but blindly naively positive, so I'm all for this, thanx for seeding it.
Permalink Reply by Duppie on August 11, 2010 at 7:52am
Lee,
I recognize some of the behavior that you describe: the personal attacks, the profanity, etc. I don't like it one bit. But instead of creating a separate group for those who promise to play nice, I think the moderator can play a more active role in moderating this forum. Call out the offenders. Remind them of the forum rules. And if they don't slow down then (temporarily) ban them.
Are you still a moderator?

Lee Diamond said:
To clarify, I realize that we have disagreements. I realize some people like 1 speed, others need 30. Some have stubby little handlebars, and others have all manner of bars at every conceivable angle. Some have 19mm tires, others are practically riding tractors. I realize there are riders who don't have lights, or helmets, or obey traffic, and others who do. Some own cars and others do not. There are those that ride for fitness, and others for transportation. Some who are into the sport, others who are interested in a movement.
I have been concerned with the level of civility and decorum on the Chainlink in the recent past. People are too quick to get hot, and when they get hot, they get really hot. Some folks seem like they are itching for a fight, and this is just an attempt to dial all of that back. I am not trying to start a movement. I am just trying to bring the tone down a notch. The very fact that we are all members of this great site is enough common ground in my opinion that we can at least be civil when we disagree. We can certainly have a diverse and opinionated membership without attacking one another.
To be sure, I am not pure...I have dissed others, called others out, said unkind things, and have raised the level of ire needlessly myself, so first and foremost, it is an effort to fix myself. I apologize to Spencer and Clark and Andrew and Howard and others I may have offended or unloaded on. I aim to figure out ways I can defend my point of view without demonizing others in the process. Others have pointed out to me that I can be harsh, unfair and intollerant, so it is clearly a problem that I must address. I hope it works, because frankly, it isn't helpful to my worldview to express my feelings and vision in a way that only alienates those with whom I disagree.

That said, it is depressing how quickly forum topics turn into arguments between a couple of players, usually far from the original poster's topic. It is exasperating to see cyclists so intent on bashing eachother. The noise-level has gotten too high, and this, is nothing more than attempt to bring it down to a reasonable level.

I hope it helps.

Cheers - Lee
Permalink Reply by Zomboogz on August 11, 2010 at 9:28am
Hey,

I am a brand-spankin' new member to the boards (think I signed up a few days ago) and I wanted to give you all a little insight of how some of the top post look on here.

I am new to this forums but I am far from new to "forums." The comment regarding people needing thick skin and a short memory it DEFINITALLY true but not really reflected here. I have read pretty much the first 5-6 pages of posts and I've seen a number of arguments, some completely unprovoked. I have even seen in this thread a "fight" continued from another - totally unrelated - post on cars. That seems like someone just saw a comment they didn’t agree with, click the profile, found another post made by the poster, and then commented in opposition to him on another thread for no reason.

If I were new to forums / boards this would have been the nail in the coffin for me ever returning to chainlink. Thats just my honest opinion. It wouldnt seem like a welcoming place and I would be terrified to post anything for fear of someone not liking it so much that they would borderline stalk me into other topics and flame me for no reason.

But there is one overbearing factor that is keeping here and that is the fact that we all love biking. We all love feeling liberated from cars and big oil, if even for a few hours a day or for five years and counting, and we all enjoy talking about our exercise, hobby, and love. Also for every bad post, or thread, that goes south there are about 4-5 great and informative threads to view. I joined "cwlcatcwlt" because it stands for something I can follow.

Just my 2 cents.

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