City considering REAL Protected Bike Lanes
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Reuben Hussmann on
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Yes, yes, yes.
More, more, more.
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Permalink Reply by leftoverbacon on
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I really don't understand why there are bike lanes at all on that stretch of State street. Michigan or Indiana would be WAY better suited to bike lanes, especially the protected kind proposed. It seems to me that almost all the bike lanes on the South Side are planned by folks who NEVER RIDE THERE. I mean, come on, what genius thought up the protected bike lanes on Canal from Harrison to Roosevelt? WORST PLACEMENT EVER!
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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on
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As a concept, I’m fine with them. As implemented to date in the City of Chicago, I don’t like them. I think the constrained infrastructure that exists in the City of Chicago is going to make it extremely difficult to come up with a design that delivers on the often cited goal of growing the number of cyclists AND making them safer.
My experience with PBLs in Chicago is principally with Kinzie and Milwaukee and to a lesser degree Elston, 18th Street, and Dearborn.
In general, Chicago’s PBLs put cyclists on the worst part of the road surface. The streets in the City of Chicago are crowned, and the bicycle travel lanes in PBLs, for the most part, are placed in the portion of the road where debris collects. Without automobile tires traveling over that area of the road, sweeping or picking up the debris, it stays in the bike lane. When it rains, this part of the road collects puddles. When it’s cold, puddles freeze. When it snows, snow and salt collects in the lane and without the aforementioned auto tire traffic, salt is less effective and snow doesn’t dissipate. Snow that used to get shoveled off sidewalks under parked cars now gets shoveled into the PBL.
In an August 22nd guest post in Streetsblog, Kristen Maddox “counted 107 manhole covers along the two-way protected bike lanes on Dearborn Street between Polk Street and Kinzie.” On northbound Milwaukee, I counted 140+ manhole and utility service box covers in the bike lane. Our PBLs traverse too many alleys and other curb cuts. Our PBLs lack uniformity of design. Milwaukee has at least five different configurations in its 0.85 mile length-sometimes you’re on the right side of parked cars, sometimes on the left, sometimes lanes are buffered, sometimes protected. And there’s a Bus Stop IN the S/B Milwaukee bike lane. Most auto-bike collisions occur at intersections and the separation of cars and bikes with parked cars impairs sightlines and I think make conflicts at intersections more likely. The accident statistics will be interesting.
The historic data pretty consistently shows the “safety in numbers” effect; i.e. more bike riders make everyone safer. It is currently argued that PBLs will attract those “curious but timid” riders who would otherwise never take up riding, at least not on the streets for errands, commuting, etc., and while that may be true, I’m not sure to what degree Chicago PBLs make them “safer.” And I’m not sure to what degree new riders separated from automobile traffic by PBLs will affect the “safety in numbers” phenomenon.
I have been riding in the City of Chicago for a long time-since before there were bike lanes. The new advocates categorize me as “a strong and fearless” rider. I don’t think that’s a particularly accurate description, in large part because I strongly believe that a certain amount of fear is a necessary component of safe riding. I don’t want to get hit by a car, and while I wouldn’t characterize myself as timid, I am pretty comfortable riding in traffic. Oh, and I have never been hit by a car.
To my eye, and my 30 or so years of experience riding a bike in Chicago traffic, Kinzie was always a great street to ride on. The addition of the PBL hasn’t made it worse or better, with the exception of the sightlines at intersections which I think have made it worse. Milwaukee has been made worse by the Balkanized PBL design. Elston, not much difference. 18th Street, love the PBL over the bridge. Dearborn is worse.
I posted the articles about the curb-protected PBLs because I think that design addition would be a step in the right direction, and if they’re going to spend tax increment financing, state and federal transportation dollars, and CDOT’s own general obligation funds on PBLs, they should do a better job with design.
Duppie said:out of curiosity, what does OP think about protected bike lanes?
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Permalink Reply by Sol on
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Not to stoke the fire, but I agree literally 100% with everything Kevin said, especially the part about the pbl's giving cyclists the worst part of the pavement. I just want slower traffic, more signage and more aharrows.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa Curcio on
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I think I have made my way up to "enthused and confident" over the past two years of transportation riding, and I share many of Kevin's concerns. I do not agree completely.
Milwaukee is worse now, in my opinion. The switching back and forth is confusing for cyclists and motorists and some of the lanes configurations seem to make the conflict points more dangerous. I like Elston between Milwaukee and North. I like Dearborn, but agree about the pavement, and would love to see concrete barriers there. A year after installation, most riders and drivers have gotten the idea with the traffic signals, but the cars parking there and the snow pushed into the lanes makes them difficult at times.
Definitely this:
"[I]f they’re going to spend tax increment financing, state and federal transportation dollars, and CDOT’s own general obligation funds on PBLs, they should do a better job with design."
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Permalink Reply by S on
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Lisa Curcio 4.1 mi said:Definitely this:
"[I]f they’re going to spend tax increment financing, state and federal transportation dollars, and CDOT’s own general obligation funds on PBLs, they should do a better job with design."
I think the hard part about this is that it takes time to consider the various options and then think up and then test designs out to find a good one. Meanwhile Rahm has promised 25 miles of lanes every year and people are advocating for new bike lanes now. The IDOT ban on bike lanes on state roads in Chicago while it does a safety study and looks at bike lane designs has gotten a lot of flack and push back. For what it's worth, if the study is actually about coming up with good lane designs, a 3 year ban would be preferable to haphazardly using designs that may need to be redone and which may increase the risk to cyclists using them.
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Jeff-You'd be a great person to have weigh in on what works and what doesn't with respect to the "as built" Chicago infra. As someone who's ridden extensively on infrastructure here and abroad, what infrastructure, "adopted in other places can work here?"
Jeff Schneider said:Three years is a long time to do nothing. I prefer FDR's approach: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, TRY SOMETHING."
Else, years will go by and we will still be having the same old debates about why or why not the infra adopted in other places can work here. Studies are great but experience is greater. Ask yourself why you feel comfortable getting on an airplane. Is it because your study of aerodynamics theory has convinced you that it can fly, or is it because you see airplanes flying?
[snip]
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Jeff Schneider said:Three years is a long time to do nothing. I prefer FDR's approach: "It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, TRY SOMETHING."
I think the problem with that approach is that once bike infrastructure is in place, it'll end up staying that way for a long time even if it makes things worse for cyclists than sharrows on a road. In any case, assuming the study is legit, it's not doing nothing, it's studying alternatives and figuring out potential solutions before trying to implement them. Personally, it'd be great if IDOT or CDOT would do a study and then try a few pilot projects with alternatives before coming up with standards but that's probably wishful thinking.
Else, years will go by and we will still be having the same old debates about why or why not the infra adopted in other places can work here. Studies are great but experience is greater. Ask yourself why you feel comfortable getting on an airplane. Is it because your study of aerodynamics theory has convinced you that it can fly, or is it because you see airplanes flying?
I'm comfortable with getting on an airplane because pretty much every component on the plane that is important to it's operation has been modeled multiple times under different loads to make sure that it'll work and then run through experiments to make sure the models hold up. Experience comes into it but learning from experience is very costly since it usually involves catastrophic failures and people dying.No one builds any structure or machinery of any complexity nowadays without spending time on design and planning. When's the last time you heard of someone building a bridge, skyscraper, etc. by just putting pieces together and hoping that it works according to specs when they're done?
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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At the time of Neill T.'s tragic death, buffered lanes did not yet exist on Wells. They were installed this July. There was a conventional bike lane on Wells at that time.
h' 1.0 said:Do we know how many cyclists have been killed in Chicago in what they've been calling 'protected lanes' up until now?
I can't think of any, personally. Unless you count Neill T, who was riding in a so-called "buffered lane."Am I forgetting someone?
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Permalink Reply by Michelle S on
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h', the buffered lanes in that section of Wells were added later. I took pictures throughout my commute home the day Neill was killed -- I was really saddened and didn't know what else to do but document the crappy current bicycling conditions, I guess. Below is the picture I took that day of the intersection of Wells and Oak, and you can see they were just the regular old-style lanes.
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Also, while I'm a big fan of protected bike lanes, I also agree with Kevin about how the section close to the curb is a "challenging" part of the roadway. The number of manhole covers on Dearborn is almost comical in sections. The drainage issues are real, and look like they're not going to be easy fixes.
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