Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on December 8, 2010 at 8:50am

My folks were in parts manufacturing so everyone can spare me the bit about buying from an authorized dealer or getting "certified" parts... at the end of the day a rear derailleur costs 10 bucks to make regardless if it's RED, Apex or unbranded.

If by "the end of the day" you mean "price of raw materials alone", then you might be correct. The consumer price of just about any given manufactured good mainly reflects the cost of the labor required to produce it, and therefore the cost of the lump of aluminum from which it was machined doesn't mean jack shit to the average consumer. Then again, if your folks really are parts manufacturing insiders you'd already know that the quality of goods produced in China has been improving exponentially in recent years and therefore wouldn't feel the need to ask this question here in the first place.

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Permalink Reply by Rick norris on December 8, 2010 at 8:51am

".....But those reputable companies have research& development, testing, packaging and marketing costs to recoup Blah, blah, etc, etc- screw 'em......"

So you would buy something from someone that did NO testing or research to save a few bucks?
No problems with buying your toothpast or drywall from China?

If you want something that looks and rides like money, it's just gonna cost money.

Companies are going to make theirs, and for the frames to be cheaper, they will be made cheaper. I don't care where thay are made, we know most carbon frames are from China, but there are also good places to buy. I would almost bet a lot of those ebay frames are QC rejects that came out the back door somehow.

I could be wrong (and a total cynic)

I did a fast online search and found frames between 550 and 900 with a fork from what I think are reputable dealers

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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on December 8, 2010 at 9:08am

Frank,

Two words: Slayer burger :)

Well worth my 13 bucks (and the leftovers were lunch the next day).
Duppie said:

This is quite ironic advice from a place that charges $13 for a beef pattie ;)

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

From the Kuma's Corner website:
TRAVEL MORE, AND STOP SPENDING MONEY THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY CRAP THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO IMPRESS PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE
Guy Woodhouse said:

Ok, I get it. I'm a total poser for being cheap but wanting to ride a modern carbon frame bike with my own decals. Next time I ask if anyone else in this community if they have had previous personal experience on a cycling specific topic I will limit myself to moustache wax preference and "which neon deep-V rim color clashes the best with my awesome dumpster find frame."

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

If that's the case, Adam and Guy, both of you need to send me your email addresses. We get a ton of spam at work like that (and I'll even throw in some ED spam as a bonus). Adam "Cezar" Jenkins said:

I also want to look rich without spending the money.

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Permalink Reply by J on December 8, 2010 at 11:05am

Guy, (like most shop mechanics) I've built up several of these ebay frames. I've also ridden a few. And I've also seen a few failures. Generally speaking, I think folks are right insofar as the chainlink simply isn't the right forum for this question because there just aren't enough folks here with first hand knowledge of the topic, not because they thing it's a dumb question.

It really depends on what you're aiming for here. I do think that most folks who buy these generic, unwarrantied frames (and handlebars, and stems, and rims...) are probably folks like you who (and I mean no offense here) are more interested in the aesthetics and concept of the bike rather than how it actually performs. If you're simply interested in building an inexpensive and lightweight modern road bike, chances are that, with a little research on places like weight weenies and slowtwitch, you'll find the right sources.

But if you're looking to build something that is ideally stiff and true and (somewhat) durable, in the way that a high end carbon road bike is supposed to be... I do think that you might be a little disappointed, as most folks I know who've gone down this path. It's not to say that generic frame X is necessarily worse than a Pinarello or a Madone or whatever... it's just that the variance in things like resin lay-up and quality control is obviously going to be higher in this case.

I do think that the whole carbon failure thing is a red herring -- it's true, carbon does fail. And when it does, it's sometimes pretty dramatic. And it does happen more than with aluminum or steel or titanium. But those materials do fail as well, especially when you're talking about the ultra light weight stuff. As far as whether a Dengfu has a higher failure rate than a Specialized, well, that's where you simply make a leap of faith... and perhaps, like some folks, you either (a) are unlikely to ride it hard enough to risk likely failure or (b) are counting on the frame being so cheap that you can buy one or two or three for the price of one branded version...

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Permalink Reply by Jason on December 8, 2010 at 12:48pm

Do it. It'll be awesome.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_locust/3768763473/in/photostream/

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Permalink Reply by S on December 8, 2010 at 1:35pm

Guy, as others have pointed out, you're probably not going to be able to get that bike that looks like money for under $1800 especially if you want to have the higher end components. I'd argue that you're wrong about how components cost the same regardless of the badging, when you start replacing parts with carbon fiber components, or titanium or start milling your components out of a single block of metal (e.g. the sram red cassettes). You can probably get deals on ebay for used components but even there you're probably not going to get more than 40-50% off making something a complete group like red run around 1000-1200.

The best way to save money and get the best bang for the buck would be to figure out when you get get cheaper components. A carbon fiber handlebar might be super light and stiff but it's pretty much covered in bar tape so you can probably get a cheaper alloy bar without losing much. Likewise, stuff like red, dura-ace, or super record chains and cassettes are really expensive and may even wear out more quickly than cheaper components so it's probably worth it to go down to something like 105 or chorus or rival. However, a lot of this is up to you and you should definitely research things online and check out things out in person if possible since there's a lot of room for personal preferences. Your bike may end up looking like money but if you hate the way the shifters feel when you're on the drops and the saddle ends up being a literal pain in the ass after 20 minutes, is that really worth the money that you may have saved?

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Permalink Reply by Guy Woodhouse on December 9, 2010 at 1:54am

Thanks for some real answers S & J ... And I appreciate the support, Jason. I don't ride competitively, so I would hope that I wouldn't be pushing any of the cheaper carbon components to the brink of failure. Since I don't compete, I really don't want a frameset that is a billboard for any manufacturer, team or sponsor that doesn't actually provide me with any services. I'll probably end up buying a mix of used (105,ultegra) parts off the web, recondition them and have them all anodized with the same finish.
Ideally, my final cost is under $1000, but $1400 might be more realistic.

S said:

Guy, as others have pointed out, you're probably not going to be able to get that bike that looks like money for under $1800 especially if you want to have the higher end components. I'd argue that you're wrong about how components cost the same regardless of the badging, when you start replacing parts with carbon fiber components, or titanium or start milling your components out of a single block of metal (e.g. the sram red cassettes). You can probably get deals on ebay for used components but even there you're probably not going to get more than 40-50% off making something a complete group like red run around 1000-1200.

The best way to save money and get the best bang for the buck would be to figure out when you get get cheaper components. A carbon fiber handlebar might be super light and stiff but it's pretty much covered in bar tape so you can probably get a cheaper alloy bar without losing much. Likewise, stuff like red, dura-ace, or super record chains and cassettes are really expensive and may even wear out more quickly than cheaper components so it's probably worth it to go down to something like 105 or chorus or rival. However, a lot of this is up to you and you should definitely research things online and check out things out in person if possible since there's a lot of room for personal preferences. Your bike may end up looking like money but if you hate the way the shifters feel when you're on the drops and the saddle ends up being a literal pain in the ass after 20 minutes, is that really worth the money that you may have saved?

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Permalink Reply by Michael A on December 9, 2010 at 4:40am

You can pick up the e-hong fu frameset direct from them for about $350 and a decent 105 build kit from jensen usa
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/GP265B01-Shimano+105+Compact...

for $750, That will keep you on budget with nice components and a decent wheelset. As far as the frameset goes for 350 it may be worth the gamble. I would just inspect it often for cracks.If you do not like it you can always save up for a new frameset, Closeout deals are always available on 2-3 yr old frames that did not sell.

This is a great example of a closeout deal

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.I...

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Permalink Reply by S on December 9, 2010 at 6:24am

Guy Woodhouse said:

Thanks for some real answers S & J ... And I appreciate the support, Jason. I don't ride competitively, so I would hope that I wouldn't be pushing any of the cheaper carbon components to the brink of failure. Since I don't compete, I really don't want a frameset that is a billboard for any manufacturer, team or sponsor that doesn't actually provide me with any services. I'll probably end up buying a mix of used (105,ultegra) parts off the web, recondition them and have them all anodized with the same finish.
Ideally, my final cost is under $1000, but $1400 might be more realistic.

S said:

Guy, as others have pointed out, you're probably not going to be able to get that bike that looks like money for under $1800 especially if you want to have the higher end components. I'd argue that you're wrong about how components cost the same regardless of the badging, when you start replacing parts with carbon fiber components, or titanium or start milling your components out of a single block of metal (e.g. the sram red cassettes). You can probably get deals on ebay for used components but even there you're probably not going to get more than 40-50% off making something a complete group like red run around 1000-1200.

The best way to save money and get the best bang for the buck would be to figure out when you get get cheaper components. A carbon fiber handlebar might be super light and stiff but it's pretty much covered in bar tape so you can probably get a cheaper alloy bar without losing much. Likewise, stuff like red, dura-ace, or super record chains and cassettes are really expensive and may even wear out more quickly than cheaper components so it's probably worth it to go down to something like 105 or chorus or rival. However, a lot of this is up to you and you should definitely research things online and check out things out in person if possible since there's a lot of room for personal preferences. Your bike may end up looking like money but if you hate the way the shifters feel when you're on the drops and the saddle ends up being a literal pain in the ass after 20 minutes, is that really worth the money that you may have saved?

Just keep in mind that Shimano shifters can't be reconditioned and aren't serviceable so if they're busted, you pretty much have to replace them. I'd also check out the sram stuff too, the shifters are a bit smaller and for some people they are a better fit when you're on the hoods.

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Permalink Reply by Brendan Kevenides on December 9, 2010 at 7:57am

I recommend reading this before riding down the carbon fiber alley: http://www.mybikeadvocate.com/2010/03/lifting-veil-on-carbon-fiber....

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Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on December 9, 2010 at 8:28am

Brendan,

It seems Bicycling no longer has that entire article up that you link in your blog entry, but it can be found here.
Brendan Kevenides said:

I recommend reading this before riding down the carbon fiber alley: http://www.mybikeadvocate.com/2010/03/lifting-veil-on-carbon-fiber....

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Permalink Reply by Brendan Kevenides on December 9, 2010 at 9:02am

Thanks Ryan! I fixed it.



Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

Brendan,

It seems Bicycling no longer has that entire article up that you link in your blog entry, but it can be found here.
Brendan Kevenides said:

I recommend reading this before riding down the carbon fiber alley: http://www.mybikeadvocate.com/2010/03/lifting-veil-on-carbon-fiber....

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